Nurses taking Strike Action

[shmiz]

AIBU to believe the public will be supportive of Nurses taking Strike Action ?
Nurses are being asked to vote YES to strike action by the biggest nurses union RCN
www.rcn.org.uk/Get-Involved/Campaign-with-us/Fair-Pay-for-Nursing/Latest-updates

@usernamealreadytaken because
a) the numbers we have do not match the needs of patients
b) increases in poverty & social deprivation are increasing the demand in the NHS
C) the total mis management of social care
d) the total mis management of primary care
e) the total mis management of mental health, especially children’s
e) hard Brexit means less staff, less equipment and medicines
f)the disgraceful management of the pandemic and the resulting impact on the mental health of many nurses
g) the shit show re NHS pensions

Do you need more

I think numbers of doctors is relevant too given that so much is passed onto nurses, especially specialists.

Because numbers can be manipulated as you have listed

because the starting wage wouldn’t be so bad if nurses are working to their job description but they are not they are more (as we all are) caring for more patients, writing up notes for far more, covering for the gaps in our teams (this isn’t just nurses)

Better working conditions that actually reflect the wages we earn would be fair but that isn’t the case at the moment. I have seen the extra pressure in seven years colleagues with 20/30 years plus have never seen such poor working conditions.

@usernamealreadytaken

Have a look?
www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/the-nhs-workforce-in-numbers#1-what-kinds-of-staff-make-up-the-nhs-workforce

You have completely ignored demand.

Can you find any figures for how many fte nursing vacancies exist, and where? Those figures are for total clinical staff, and highlight the fact that there's a particular shortage in London - is that down to massive population growth coupled with fewer medical staff wanting to live and work there?

@walkingonsunshinekat don't worry, I found figures www.nurses.co.uk/blog/stats-and-facts-uk-nursing-social-care-and-healthcare-2022/.
Still wondering how we have so many I filled posts, given the year on year increase in headcount. Perhaps increased demand is unrealistic - can't think of any other reason why activists tell us that staffing levels were good under Labour, but despite the increases are not sufficient under the current administration.

Millions more older people/medical advances, between 1990 and 2016, there were an additional 3m over 65s, healthcare need rises exponentially with age, plus a 9m increase in the general population since 2000.

I'm no activist either, stats don't lie and pre austerity, the NHS had more funding as a % of GDP, a lot more, its not just staff, its beds, scanners, social care - how many new hospitals have we built

If the Tories had carried on that funding, i'd be banging their drum but they didn't.

@usernamealreadytaken

Your questions have been answered.

Can you answer mine?

You'll be waiting a long time.

@walkingonsunshinekat

Yes

I think so.

There's a reason shift workers are paid more per hour - it comes at a personal cost to your health and social life.

In general though, they deserve a pay rise.

Solidarity.

The figures don't appear to be published by band, only by "level", but I'm sure you won't be able to access them. Sorry I was busy for half an hour, didn't mean to go and have other stuff to do. files.digital.nhs.uk/BE/838658/NHS%20Workforce%20Statistics%2C%20June%202022%20Staff%20Group%2C%20Care%20Setting%20and%20Level.xlsx

No, sorry, can't access them

Can you share the info instead of the link you know I cant open?

There aren't 'levels' in nursing. Just bands

So we ve had an increase of 40k in General nursing and HV's but elderly have increased and we've seen a 9m increase in population?

Is that something to be shouting about? on a % level it's clearly below what is required just to stay still.

Community nurse here. My current fte wage actually sounds quite good at 40k. But we have no office space so I wfh most of the week and leave from home to go on home visits, I don’t get any expenses for my internet, gas or electricity. I don’t even have a work phone. I don’t get paid mileage from home to my visits, I get 45p/mile from my ‘office base’ to visits. This is obviously under what it costs me. I pay £20 a month union fees, my own business insurance and £10 a month NMC fees.

I am at the top of my band and absolutely love working with patients but there is zero progression unless I go into full management with no patient contact so my wage is as good as it gets without leaving the work I love.

For my 40k FTE I work at least 1-2 hours extra a day. I’m part time but regularly work on my day off. I can’t sleep at night worrying about patients, wondering how I am going to help them when services aren’t there yet knowing I will be dragged over the coals if something goes wrong because nurses aren’t supported or protected if it does. We are scapegoated. I have 50% over the recommended caseload for my area of work. I can’t keep track of it and often worry about what I am missing because it is inevitable I am missing something. It is fire fighting. I also work in a role that regularly requires me to write court reports which is obviously a lot of responsibility.

I am required to do a certain amount of learning however all that is provided is the basic mandatory training. Keeping up to date with research, attending conferences or external courses involves doing so in my own time and at my own cost. I have spent thousands doing this yet friends in private sector roles (not health) get this provided regularly and paid for. We then get complaints if we aren’t up to date.

amongst my professional friends in other areas of work I know none with as much stress or responsibility as me for as little pay. Some work longer hours yes but they often earn 20k more.

I am close to burn out as are many of my colleagues. It is truly awful. So I have voted yes to strike.

I work closely with HV’s their numbers are at an all time low.

ihv.org.uk/news-and-views/news/health-visitor-workforce-numbers-in-england-reach-an-all-time-low/

Well apparently the NHS keeps its records not by band then.

It's a spreadsheet with six tabs and headcount figures for over 200 different positions for thirteen years - what would you like me to C&P?

Here's just a tiny bit - it won't format but if you take the first and last bit of info from each then you'll see the change from 09-22.

Sum of Total FTE Date
Staff Group 1 Staff Group 2 Care Setting Level Sep-09 Oct-09 Nov-09 Dec-09 Jan-10 Feb-10 Mar-10 Apr-10 May-10 Jun-10 Jul-10 Aug-10 Sep-10 Oct-10 Nov-10 Dec-10 Jan-11 Feb-11 Mar-11 Apr-11 May-11 Jun-11 Jul-11 Aug-11 Sep-11 Oct-11 Nov-11 Dec-11 Jan-12 Feb-12 Mar-12 Apr-12 May-12 Jun-12 Jul-12 Aug-12 Sep-12 Oct-12 Nov-12 Dec-12 Jan-13 Feb-13 Mar-13 Apr-13 May-13 Jun-13 Jul-13 Aug-13 Sep-13 Oct-13 Nov-13 Dec-13 Jan-14 Feb-14 Mar-14 Apr-14 May-14 Jun-14 Jul-14 Aug-14 Sep-14 Oct-14 Nov-14 Dec-14 Jan-15 Feb-15 Mar-15 Apr-15 May-15 Jun-15 Jul-15 Aug-15 Sep-15 Oct-15 Nov-15 Dec-15 Jan-16 Feb-16 Mar-16 Apr-16 May-16 Jun-16 Jul-16 Aug-16 Sep-16 Oct-16 Nov-16 Dec-16 Jan-17 Feb-17 Mar-17 Apr-17 May-17 Jun-17 Jul-17 Aug-17 Sep-17 Oct-17 Nov-17 Dec-17 Jan-18 Feb-18 Mar-18 Apr-18 May-18 Jun-18 Jul-18 Aug-18 Sep-18 Oct-18 Nov-18 Dec-18 Jan-19 Feb-19 Mar-19 Apr-19 May-19 Jun-19 Jul-19 Aug-19 Sep-19 Oct-19 Nov-19 Dec-19 Jan-20 Feb-20 Mar-20 Apr-20 May-20 Jun-20 Jul-20 Aug-20 Sep-20 Oct-20 Nov-20 Dec-20 Jan-21 Feb-21 Mar-21 Apr-21 May-21 Jun-21 Jul-21 Aug-21 Sep-21 Oct-21 Nov-21 Dec-21 Jan-22 Feb-22 Mar-22 Apr-22 May-22 Jun-22
005_Nurses & health visitors 278,470 280,700 281,367 280,228 281,064 281,444 281,983 281,609 280,950 280,620 279,941 279,076 279,883 281,477 281,588 280,399 281,107 280,974 280,516 279,266 278,635 277,911 277,024 275,840 277,047 278,094 277,729 276,787 277,506 274,842 275,114 275,120 272,471 271,782 271,212 269,913 271,407 273,561 274,127 273,360 274,163 274,545 274,803 274,599 273,937 273,783 273,373 272,188 274,627 277,014 278,490 277,910 279,401 280,020 280,836 280,300 279,794 279,172 277,924 276,763 278,981 281,437 282,141 281,489 282,074 282,464 282,995 282,160 281,326 280,962 279,862 278,758 281,474 284,870 285,665 284,239 285,094 285,637 285,387 285,080 284,652 283,674 282,708 281,812 284,288 287,197 287,440 285,173 286,020 285,763 285,893 284,619 283,624 282,603 281,363 280,307 283,853 287,147 286,921 285,272 286,215 285,720 285,745 284,736 284,073 283,327 282,661 281,789 285,674 289,712 289,685 288,136 289,241 289,759 290,010 289,627 288,851 288,646 288,405 287,458 291,533 295,209 296,410 296,093 297,407 298,632 300,497 301,528 301,643 301,612 301,031 301,326 304,490 305,850 307,227 306,430 308,107 309,631 311,137 310,315 310,036 310,251 310,629 310,935 313,836 316,362 318,002 317,750 319,806 321,018 321,624 319,496 319,847 319,481

006_Nurses - adult 167,252 169,033 169,388 168,538 169,079 169,427 169,897 170,032 169,788 169,708 169,428 168,952 169,442 170,938 170,784 169,991 170,519 170,092 169,327 169,182 168,589 167,963 167,352 166,559 166,977 167,996 167,865 167,211 167,745 166,817 166,858 166,794 165,933 165,665 165,290 164,510 165,017 166,803 167,193 166,789 167,302 167,507 167,705 168,152 167,828 167,856 167,607 166,989 168,410 170,488 171,588 171,221 172,122 172,703 173,383 173,225 173,048 172,673 171,925 171,259 172,511 174,371 174,814 174,357 174,731 174,963 175,337 174,942 174,625 174,475 173,976 173,451 174,960 176,979 177,554 176,566 177,079 177,520 177,716 177,891 177,918 177,322 176,873 176,369 177,873 179,993 180,061 178,768 179,420 179,430 179,784 179,140 178,555 177,922 177,269 176,680 178,393 180,846 180,569 179,506 179,795 179,802 179,941 179,453 179,132 178,826 178,582 178,007 180,088 182,789 183,027 182,067 182,942 183,496 183,889 183,727 183,541 183,602 183,707 183,448 185,557 188,229 189,182 189,105 189,987 191,115 192,517 193,449 193,326 193,202 192,913 193,154 194,907 195,775 196,640 196,185 197,380 198,509 199,665 199,367 199,420 199,916 200,647 201,240 202,948 204,740 206,168 206,498 208,205 209,305 210,038 209,040 209,423 209,351

001_Adult and General 160,211 161,908 162,224 161,406 161,916 162,241 162,672 162,821 162,565 162,392 162,011 161,576 161,878 163,115 162,966 162,223 162,903 162,907 162,923 162,983 162,525 162,073 161,594 160,944 161,408 162,405 162,393 161,875 162,393 161,484 161,638 161,633 160,974 160,739 160,373 159,586 160,188 161,972 162,371 161,962 162,489 162,689 162,955 163,523 163,243 163,278 163,039 162,469 163,881 165,937 166,997 166,655 167,537 168,123 168,845 168,883 168,776 168,419 167,674 167,051 168,227 170,050 170,590 170,126 170,485 170,738 171,085 170,683 170,501 170,349 169,872 169,387 170,882 172,854 173,446 172,489 172,984 173,434 173,648 173,841 173,863 173,327 172,886 172,386 173,829 175,896 175,973 174,694 175,300 175,332 175,662 175,118 174,548 173,917 173,243 172,677 174,343 176,750 176,507 175,466 175,737 175,751 175,902 175,429 175,092 174,802 174,526 173,965 175,999 178,701 178,944 178,026 178,871 179,390 179,745 179,582 179,418 179,469 179,554 179,350 181,403 184,016 184,956 184,836 185,794 186,887 188,243 189,135 188,995 188,887 188,632 188,878 190,641 191,476 192,327 191,867 193,034 194,187 195,298 194,972 194,991 195,458 196,150 196,672 198,345 200,099 201,517 201,851 203,465 204,526 205,232 204,215 204,521 204,431

001_Nurse Consultant 364 366 365 358 360 366 374 375 372 379 382 380 387 401 420 431 428 434 434 432 431 430 430 425 488 486 481 493 501 503 497 492 496 492 497 491 494 491 492 492 498 497 498 494 489 492 488 495 498 476 480 489 446 446 445 459 460 459 459 458 466 460 454 456 450 449 452 440 449 456 451 448 463 475 485 480 489 497 484 482 496 495 505 507 505 497 515 511 513 516 518 507 516 508 515 518 520 530 530 538 535 543 545 543 545 544 544 548 545 544 540 547 549 550 562 570 574 573 589 585 581 578 583 584 596 606 608 582 580 575 575 578 583 577 582 591 597 589 596 597 609 608 604 630 642 639 657 656 669 728 728 716 711 716

002_Modern Matron 3,147 3,128 3,123 3,104 3,101 3,097 3,098 3,066 3,060 3,043 3,023 2,994 2,995 2,991 2,968 2,951 2,924 2,922 2,914 2,888 2,884 2,880 2,841 2,808 2,787 2,778 2,775 2,774 2,754 2,726 2,709 2,673 2,656 2,646 2,626 2,615 2,614 2,598 2,561 2,571 2,579 2,607 2,599 2,596 2,583 2,552 2,510 2,489 2,497 2,477 2,467 2,513 2,536 2,530 2,527 2,542 2,518 2,507 2,503 2,484 2,500 2,509 2,508 2,509 2,510 2,523 2,554 2,568 2,557 2,550 2,556 2,575 2,571 2,592 2,598 2,622 2,647 2,681 2,673 2,675 2,675 2,643 2,658 2,664 2,699 2,727 2,748 2,744 2,751 2,741 2,731 2,725 2,751 2,771 2,749 2,762 2,749 2,787 2,799 2,780 2,805 2,816 2,827 2,830 2,839 2,843 2,836 2,847 2,847 2,865 2,870 2,883 2,953 2,965 2,979 2,947 2,965 2,976 2,991 2,986 2,990 2,976 2,979 2,981 3,020 3,012 3,048 3,086 3,099 3,111 3,112 3,121 3,118 3,126 3,158 3,184 3,239 3,270 3,269 3,251 3,262 3,258 3,273 3,295 3,321 3,319 3,360 3,362 3,388 3,395 3,394 3,361 3,408 3,422

004_Nurse Manager 3,043 3,095 3,130 3,126 3,160 3,177 3,199 3,212 3,230 3,234 3,214 3,234 3,226 3,235 3,223 3,214 3,203 3,223 3,193 3,146 3,149 3,191 3,150 3,142 3,142 3,172 3,166 3,187 3,200 3,185 3,168 3,173 3,134 3,138 3,130 3,137 3,147 3,125 3,131 3,151 3,151 3,139 3,154 3,077 3,084 3,139 3,241 3,267 3,325 3,333 3,317 3,326 3,345 3,377 3,416 3,353 3,401 3,447 3,488 3,486 3,545 3,553 3,591 3,659 3,669 3,685 3,701 3,727 3,739 3,714 3,753 3,734 3,757 3,849 3,900 3,887 3,913 3,965 4,023 4,001 4,026 4,070 4,075 4,073 4,094 4,106 4,077 4,072 4,162 4,165 4,172 4,135 4,186 4,225 4,200 4,206 4,213 4,259 4,301 4,322 4,345 4,380 4,412 4,388 4,401 4,398 4,440 4,460 4,452 4,485 4,501 4,523 4,602 4,675 4,677 4,721 4,741 4,764 4,786 4,809 4,799 4,734 4,738 4,761 4,798 4,842 4,905 4,922 4,942 4,949 4,960 4,942 4,996 5,028 5,120 5,136 5,169 5,204 5,272 5,264 5,289 5,339 5,354 5,426 5,486 5,488 5,564 5,586 5,666 5,655 5,707 5,803 5,858 5,884

005_Children's Nurse 226 236 237 234 239 240 244 265 262 256 248 260 272 324 339 338 353 352 340 373 371 363 364 367 318 323 323 827 816 811 808 801 802 799 698 257 269 265 270 279 284 289 261 267 261 257 252 262 256 258 262 261 261 269 266 299 297 309 312 317 313 312 319 310 333 336 349 338 342 345 343 322 336 358 362 364 359 363 335 268 266 272 282 286 294 307 308 299 303 312 317 271 275 273 275 272 282 281 279 282 288 281 281 284 287 289 278 275 283 284 286 295 296 284 284 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

My role is similar in all the ways you describe. Morale is very low, retention is awful. Caseload is ridiculous and constant pressure to see more. We have targets and are pitted against each other. Quantity over quality. No CPD time. Mileage is a joke. Wear and tear on vehicles.

Also we seem to have gained more managers and less clinicians.

If HV numbers are at an all time low then nurse numbers must be at an all time high, according to NHS headcount figures (nurses & HV are counted in one).

Sep-09
Nurses & health visitors 315,436
Midwives 23,540

Jul-22
Nurses & health visitors 356,096
Midwives 26,041

But everyone will just keep coming back with anecdotes, and not actually address the actual fact that there are more staff now than ever - why are the hospitals apparently under staffed? Population has increased about 7%, but nursing staff have increased around 11% so we shouldn't be in this position. Are too many people abusing the system and taking appointments they shouldn't? Are too many staff working P/T which means not enough cover?

OR are the figures falsified?

Wouldn't be the first time the Govt has lied - we score highly in international comparisons in education and health by including in totals spent, private provision and, unbelievably, tuition fees!!!
Or foreign aid amounts but spend 50% here in the UK.

Then there is demand, no one gets referred for a hospital appointment unless they need it.

The population has increased by 7%, but the number of over 65s (who are by far the greatest users of healthcare) has increased far more.

In 2011, 16.4% of the population was over 65, which equates to 10.37m people.
In 2021, 18.6% of the population was over 65, which equates to 12.52m people.

That's an increase of 20.7% in older people.

Also, headcount =/= FTE. So whole headcount gives an indication, it won't tell the whole story.

But the ageing population is the main thing.

We have a situation where we have significantly more older people are needing care and other services, but we have a lower proportion of working age people who can be employed to deliver those services. This is why so many industries have such a recruitment crisis, not just healthcare.

In 2011, 64.7% of the population was working age. In 2021, 64.1% of the population was working age.

I fully support the nurses strike. I am a HCA & whilst in my main job things are okay, I regularly do bank shifts elsewhere and it is astounding the responsibility placed on nurses, who are essentially responsible for keeping a ward full of patients alive overnight (no doctors physically on the wards at night time routinely). On a recent shift I was moved to help on a ward and it was me, who had never been there before, and ONE nurse with 24 patients. Everyone else had phoned in sick. The nurse understandably was not willing to work under such conditions, the day staff left (late) and she was on the phone to the powers that be trying to get us some help, meanwhile I am trying to answer call buzzers, take people to the toilet etc & stop people from falling out of bed (elderly care ward) it was brutal. And in between this she was trying to figure out who needed what medicines, we had an acutely ill gentleman who needed reviewed urgently by medics. Whilst obviously this is not the norm, it is not as rare as people think and I hope if me, or a relative needed care I would be on a properly staffed, safe ward with the right skill mix to keep me pain free and alive. The nurses should strike, the conditions they and other hospital staff are working under would not be tolerated in any other job, and it is down to the goodwill and genuine caring nature of most that they haven't walked out already. Also don't forget, if that nurse had made a fatal mistake on the night we were alone in charge of 24 unwell elderly patients she would likely be struck off. Fortunately we were able to get another nurse & a HCA to come and help us after almost 2 hours. I will never forget that shift where by the grace of god everyone came out unscathed. What other job would you do with such huge responsibility for the same wage?

The frustrating thing is that the baby boomers hitting old age has been a predictable pressure that governments have had decades to prepare for.

It's not a surprise that we have this huge cohort now reaching their 70s and needing more care, therefore healthcare demand has gone up. Look at that spike on the graph - that has been there since the 50s.