What do you count as a 'professional' job?

[Llamapalma]

My DSis and I have been arguing this tonight.

What in your opinion counts as a 'professional' job?

Certain wage? Anyone who works in an office? Anyone who has to dress smart? Certain job titles?

To me it means a registered professional but everyone I know who works in an office, gets really angry if you don’t class then as “a professional”.

Thank you, I'll give feedback on the pages 😊 definitely not a dig at you. At all! I think your job sounds really interesting and I'm a little jealous.

I don't work in architecture anymore due to sexual harrassment and constant inequality (and clients telling me how they'd prefer a male architect!) but I wish I stayed in academia somehow. I love learning and teaching young adults, I think it's my fave thing ever.

I'm really sorry to hear that.
I had a discussion about this with my students last week, we were talking about women's career development and we discussed women in male dominated professions and the issues they face..... it led to a discussion about how ethical it is to encourage young girls to consider professions/sectors where they'll face sexism and/or harassment.

Of course it’s ethical to encourage women to join any profession. It’s the firms that need to change not telling women not to join them in the first place. Nothing will change if women aren’t encouraged to demand more.

If I'm honest @TheMoops it was fun at University but working life has been painful. The problem is unless we endure it, then women will never be equal in the industry. But my mental health was wrecked trying to endure and protect younger female colleagues at work.

5 of us left in quick succession, unsurprisingly only men remain in that particular business.

It is also regional, I'm in a less diverse part of the UK. 😔

My other skills are STEM - but that has its challenges in this part of the UK too. So I'm focusing on copywriting. If I can.

Anyway, sorry for the derail everyone! X

One that requires membership of a professional regulator. I cannot teach without my GTCS registration.

Oh I agree. When I'm teaching my students I like to throw in some controversial comments to get them debating!!

It led to how we as a sector can facilitate or support a cultural change.

This debate will be used in my session in professional identity next week 😉

I hope you find enjoyment in your career going forward.
No job is worth our mental health

*damaging our mental health

Where would you put a research scientist?

It usually requires a PhD. They often have an international reputation in their field and publish under their own name. But it doesn't fit some of the other definitions like member of professional body, being struck off etc.

Professional roles require extremely high education, CPD and little supervision.

Like teaching then.

Degree and PGCE which awards QTS (4 years), regular compulsory CPD and little supervision.

I wouldn’t say a research scientist is a professional. Because they’re not a member of a professional body, there’s no registration, no possibility of being struck off.

But doesn’t that contradict the idea that a ‘professional’ is someone who has studied and passed a certain amount of qualifications? If someone with a 8 years+ of academic study including a PhD does not count as a ‘professional’ then it seems like the whole idea of who is a professional and who isn’t just doesn’t make any sense.

Maybe, but in my mind professional means registered professional. 🤷‍♀️

I'd class doctor, vet, psychologist, solicitor, nurse, social worker , teacher as a professional (anyone that needs to have professional registration and ongoing cpd). Myself and my friends fall into the above but I have an economist and project manager (technical role) friend and I'd also say they're professionals but not sure if they need to be registered with professional body.

Banking is quite a good example actually. Some people working in banks will not be professionals - eg those working at lower admin levels although they may be working towards qualifications to get that status. Others will have it as they have studied for and passed professional qualifiations - eg chartered banker, lawyer, accountant etc. They will have had to undertake a level of practical experience too before they can qualify. Once qualified they would need to renew their membership each year which usually means that they have to have continued to work in the field (or a closely related one) and completed a requisite number of hour of continuing professional development. Most chartered institutes require a minimum number of those hours to be structured - ie on courses/conferences etc so that it can't all be a self certified number of hours reading each month. Chartered institutes and similar bodies also have required standards of behaviour and failure to meet them means that you lose your membership/status. eg a chartered accountant would lose their membership if they became bankrupt which would mean that they could no longer call themselves one/practice as one.

Same with accountancy. Literally anyone can call themselves an accountant. Public don't understand the difference between a properly qualified/regulated "chartered" accountant and Joe Smith who calls himself Joe Smith Accountancy!

I've even seen employers take on someone based on their cv saying they're an accountant and showing work experience/history of accountancy work, and not realising they're not actually qualified/regulated by a professional body. They just seem to assume that someone calling themselves an accountant and working as an accountant is qualified/regulated!

@FromageRouge "A role that requires a degree or equivalent and professional registration with a professional body."

I agree and would also add - Regulated under Statute and subject to periodic external assessments

Many research scientists within stem are medically or PhD trained. It's a grey area.

To me, someone who is has to be registered with a professional body to be able to do their job.

Saying that, I remember seeing ads for rented accommodation that said "professionals only", when they really meant people in paid employment.

I don't think it really matters though. A job is a job, and I don't think there is any point to split working people into different levels.

Acting is a profession as is being a newsreader. I think it's far broader than it used to be

I don't think it really matters though. A job is a job, and I don't think there is any point to split working people into different levels.

It matters to universities. It's literally how they measure the success of their courses!

Post graduate professional qualification and member of professional body so a few examples I can think of are:

Medical doctor, barrister or solicitor, Chartered Accountant (rather than just anyone calling themselves an accountant), RIBA architect, Chartered Surveyor, Clergyman.

An academic with a PhD maybe a professional but not always. I have a PhD but do not use it in my profession and I am not a professional because of it. My professional qualification involved specified work experience alongside several levels of exams. Post qualification, all professionals are required to do hours of annual study to remain up-to-date.

Professionals are licenced by their professional body and can be investigated and stopped from practising if they are found guilty of malpractice.

Aren't jobs already classified in order to remove a lot of ambiguity?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Occupational_Classification_(United_Kingdom)

Yes, this was mentioned upthread. The ONS definition is rather different and more realistic than some of the rather outdated notions on this thread.