A negative side of English culture - the politics of envy

[Endlesssummer2022]

Let me start by saying I’m English with one immigrant parent.

This is something I’ve occasionally thought about over the years.

We often get told the positives of English culture e.g fair play, loving to queue, dry sense of humour, loving animals etc but rarely acknowledge anything negative.

Envy is a huge problem here and makes all of our lives worse in so many ways because instead of trying to make things better, many of us use more energy trying to bring others down.

I believe this behaviour climaxed at the Brexit vote when a large portion of voters were fixated on bringing down ‘metropolitan elites’ aka the educated and Londoners because they perceived them to have more. All this did was make us all of our lives harder and poorer.

Many people cheer and rush to vote if they think something they don’t have will be taken away from someone else. Rather than work out how to get these things themselves, change lifestyle, make different decisions, accept not everyone can have the same, decide not to focus on what others have or don’t have, they get angry and campaign for others to have less to make themselves feel better.

Every major election win since 2016 has been built on spite and envy and as a result things get worse for all of us. It’s becoming more and more depressing that this mentality seems to be endemic. Middle class people are lumped in with the super rich who many despise and because people feel powerless to do anything about the super rich, they focus their anger on the middle class and want to bring them down a peg or two.

Envy and spite is just making our country increasingly poorer in multiple ways. The country doesn’t feel aspirational anymore. It’s making me consider whether I want to continue to bring my kids up here. Is envy a big part of the cultures of other countries?

I think it's linked to uk being quite a low salary country. You can work your arse off in some jobs and never feel well paid. Can't afford property and may even need to rely on a foodbank if your boiler needs repairing that month.

Envy and spite are not British attributes

That's a very weird thing to think, offensive really

There are envious and spiteful people in all cultures

Luckily I don't actually know (m)any people like this, do you?

There is a massive difference between anger at inequality, and envy. I think you've confused the two.

And there are some huge generalisations in your post OP.

I'm all for cheering people on. However, I'm not one for praising and cheering those that don't care about or don't wish to help those less fortunate than themselves.

I first heard the phrase from John Major. It was his stock response to complaints about the unfairness of the Tory government he led.

A very English response too. Like calling people 'chippy'. If you object to this label - it's a sign that you are ' chippy'.

We have had the politics of envy in the UK for many years, and it is horrible. Some people work hard & do well in life and yet others seem to begrudge them their success - I just don't understand it.

Well, if all the children currently attending private schools suddenly needed state school places, that would cause a massive issue, wouldn't it?

Yes, you're thick.

Yes that is a good point

There is a huge amount of envy and spite directed against those receiving benefits, disabled people, people living in social housing. Remember the woman who voted Tory because she wanted other people's benefits to be cut, then was genuinely surprised and resentful when her own benefits were cut by the Tories she voted in? Remember the attacks on disabled people in the streets, disabled people terrified to leave their homes, after the media campaigns against them?
There's a long history of divide and rule. No idea whether other countries conduct politics along those lines, though, so I can't say if it's a British thing or just a human evil thing.

There's always been a toxic culture with the Brits where if you are one step ahead, you need to be pulled back. This is in all the classes from top to bottom.

I’m an immigrant and I find the class thing weird. My husband’s from a working class background; is very bright & studied at one of the UK’s top uni’s - but no matter what, if he meets someone from a posh background/privately educated he immediately “bristles” - even though he’s done well for himself and we’d be described by others as ‘upper middle class’. Is it envy or just - I dunno, an ingrained class thing? Or has he just got a massive chip on his shoulder for reasons unknown to me?

Do you mean Brirish culture or are you specifically having a pop and the English?
Please clarify

I do think human nature is to compare ourselves to others... this can be as much about someone's popularity/looks/relationships etc as material envy. I think we have a toxic mix of severe inequality and unreal projections of what other peoples lives are really like (some very discontented people in real life post the most #soblessed on social media, they filter photos and make other people feel fat, lonely and poor.)

I really think there needs to be more emphasis on living in the real world rather than online, looking outwards, seeking out community and contentment... but this needs to be balanced with the political will to ensure everyone can afford the basic things for a pleasant if simple life.

I think if there’s one thing the British are good at it’s finding fault with ourselves, so we hear plenty negative, from binge drinking to over apologising.

Envy is universal however, you will struggle to escape that.

I see that. I’m Scottish with one Irish immigrant parent so not quite the same thing but if I had a quid for every time someone goes banging on about how we don’t pay prescription fees or tuition fees or personal care or bedroom tax or free school dinners or blah blah blah. It does feel like folk south of the border lash out saying snippy things to us about it rather than take action and make sure they get it too.

Yes we get these things for free at the point of use (like everything else taxpayer funded) but I’d be just as happy for them to get it too. There’s literally nothing we can do about it tho. We don’t stick tories in a position of power.

You are spot on. I have not seen this in any other countries or at least at this scale.

Not entirely, merely bringing down the high achievers is too negative and is quite easy.
To be POSITIVE we must build up the people with less, it takes longer but is better. It is important to enlist the involvement of those who are successful.
Both the French and Russian Revolutions only destroyed. It took France about 70 years to recover. and we know about Russia.

This. We’ve never had a government that is more blatant about making the wealthy wealthier at the expense of the poor and vulnerable.

It's a red herring. Private school parents would never do this.

@Blocked

It makes no sense to me either but the parties make a lot of big promises at election times. And it seems to make sense on the face of it, the Tories will cut taxes which should mean we are better off. But now they've shown us they will cut taxes but only for members of their 'club' - those of us earning less than 6 figures can get fucked. It's an eye opener...they're usually less brazen about it.

You will never be better off by paying less taxes. The countries that have a higher standard of living/ health care/ child care / state education all pay a lot more income tax. Tax is used to make the country better for all, you should want to pay more tax.

Your question is VERY loaded. For the people I know, who voted for Brexit, it had nothing to do with 'bringing down a liberal elite' (wtf !). Maybe you need to get off your high horse and spend more time seeing how other people live.

As for the politics of envy, yes, I think there is, but in a social media world, with 'influencers' and celebrities constantly pushing expensive lifestyles as 'living their best lives', it's hardly surprising people want nice shiny new things and holidays on tropical islands.

And for those who are struggling to keep the heating on or feed their dcs decent food, they have every right to be angry and envious. Our world has never been very equitable but it's getting worse.

@MintJulia Lots of folk wittered on about the 'liberal lefty metropolitan elite' living in an ivory tower and forcing multiculturism immigration on us. Liberal lefty elite being shorthand for educated middle class types who wring their hands over social issues like poverty and inequality and tend to vote Labour.To suggest they didn't is disingenuous. Right wing populist agitators like Farage stirred things up, particularly on social media and still do now hence the appearance of TV stations like GB news. His notorious brexit poster showing a long queue of syrians, turks or whoever trying to enter the country is a perfect example of trying to arouse feelings of envy and jealousy amongst folk living in economically left behind areas except funnily enough that hatred wasn't directed at the super rich 'elites' but immigrants, refugees, benefit claimants.... it's not quite as straightforward as you think.

I'm not sure if you have written this to start a row. But what your thinking is classism, we live in a society that reward the rich, keeps the middle class with just enough and leaves the poorest with nothing. There's this societal belief that the poor are benefit scroungers who choose not to work and asylum seekers are all here to steal and commit crime. The rich are happy because they feel envied, the middle class are pissed off caus they want more but rather tha blame the rich they blame the poor. And the poor keep starving and being told it's their fault.

@baycityrollers And anyone with any intelligence, when presented with the stark difference in views that Brexit caused, sat and listened to the reasons different people voted as they did, rather than just accepting one view.

I agree with you OP. The culture here is more about enjoying seeing others fail then trying to do something to improve your own situation. People are very stuck in their own mindset of failure and don’t seem to want to get out of it.