AIBU to think life would be better in Canada?

[ButtercupsAndBluebells]

I've always been very happy with my life in the UK, but I am starting to feel so disillusioned (as many others are too, judging by several other threads I've read today). My brother moved to Canada (Calgary, Alberta) a few years ago and is currently staying with us for a visit. Although he hasn't been openly critical or boastful, it's obvious that he's been taken aback by how things have deteriorated here. He seems to have such a wonderful life, and it's left me feeling very flat about my own.

I know I shouldn't compare, but it's hard not to. DH and I have similar jobs to my brother and SIL. They have the huge house and cars, a fantastic family doctor, a mobile home that they take into the mountains most weekends, access to the most incredible wilderness despite living in a city. In contrast, we have a small 3 bed terrace without any parking, disposable income is shrinking month by month and let's not even mention the state of the NHS. We live in a really nice area, but there's still litter everywhere and it's like nobody cares about their surroundings.

I have done some reading online and I think we'd have a good chance of being accepted to migrate ourselves, but would it really be that different? I'm tying myself in knots thinking about it. Please can someone either talk me down or give me some encouragement!

The thing is, where do you live now? The country that did the plundering and whose economy was built on empire and resource extraction.

Yes I live here in the UK. Where else can I go? This is where my ancestors were from as far back as I can know. I lived for a brief time in the USA and I learned that it wasn’t my land. I’ll admit to whatever you want me to about Britain or Europe or wherever you like.

Tranada? You couldn’t pay me to live there.

I think there's a European tendency to ignore the blood on one's own hands because the results don't stare you quite so directly in the face every day.

This is absolutely true, again I will take it. But by the same token, it’s easy to just say ah well it was all the British as though that’s a thing of the past without acknowledging when one is literally sitting inside the legacy and very ongoing architecture of that oppression and not dismantling it. The British might have put it there but we can’t always do a lot. But I don’t want to emigrate to work in Canada’s oil sands because that definitely doesn’t seem right. I’m happy for Britain to return indigenous artefacts and I’m happy to apologise for residential schools until forever.

*might have put it there but we can’t always do a lot about it now

In comparison to the USA though, I feel like people often seem to view Canada as though because it’s relatively emptier they can kind of stake a claim more readily?I may be getting that wrong but it’s just an impression I have based on the way people talk about it.

Honestly I’ve never heard anything of the sort. People generally immigrate to establish towns and cities, rather than trying to survive in the wilderness….

Secondly, while people are vary wary about some of the darker aspects of the USA - we see and read a lot about it whether we want to or not - my impression is that people think of Canada as very progressive in contrast (which it is in many ways) and may not have scratched the surface to gain an idea about history and the very much ongoing oppression of the indigenous people. I feel like never see it mentioned.

I agree that this wasn’t a matter that received a lot of coverage internationally until quite recently, but the ongoing discoveries of mass graves do seem to have made headlines worldwide. Awareness in Canada itself has certainly significantly improved, but the Calls to Action remain very much a work in progress…

I’m Canadian (from Quebec) but have lived in the U.K. for decades and have British citizenship.

I agree that Canadians in general are dull/earnest. Of course this doesn’t apply to me or my friends, we’re all proudly messed up and loud about it 😁. But I’d say this is true of my sisters and their families and friends, and of Canadians generally. I could spend a long time elaborating on the cultural reasons for this, but my phone is acting up so I won’t.

I love Canadian summers. Proper heat, pools and lakes, festivals. I’m also gobsmacked that people think Canadian politics is somehow worse than the farce we’ve been having in this country for years. I’m no fan of JT, but seriously, who would pick Liz Truss over him?!

Also, while I agree that Canada has been broadly captured by the trans ideology, overall Canada is a much more egalitarian country than the U.K., where women have more rights, are better respected in the workplace, and face less abuse. I think there is now an awakening around trans issues and the pendulum is going to swing back.

But I would never move back. Not enough history, culture, art exhibitions, good theatre. I see more plays in a month in London than I would in a year in Canada. Public transport is bad, people drive everywhere. Travel is expensive, except if you want to go to New York/Punta Cana/Mexico.

I’m also gobsmacked that people think Canadian politics is somehow worse than the farce we’ve been having in this country for years. I’m no fan of JT, but seriously, who would pick Liz Truss over him?!
I think that many people on the right have some pretty odd feelings about how the freedom convoy was handled, that are usually extremely inconsistent with their views on how protests that they do no support should be handled.

The UK has stricter laws than Canada regarding peoples’ right to protest, and the freedom convoy would absolutely have been illegal in the UK.

Couldn’t give me millions to want to live in Canada now. Trudeau’s behaviour during covid was frankly terrifying. The trans issue is nearly as bad

Trudeau’s behaviour during covid was frankly terrifying.
How so?

What was terrifying about Trudeau’s behaviour during Covid?

(apologies for responding twice, the second one was to @ you, in the hope that you’ll be the exception to the rule and actually meaningfully engage on this point).

Well seizing bank accounts of not just people peacefully protesting, but anyone donating to the peaceful protestors isn't really what you'd expect in a democracy is it? Then there was the demonising of the unvaccinated, the mandates, the whole masking except for him when he went partying abroad.

Then the times he conveniently got covid at exactly the time he could really have done with addressing protesters. I think this was at least 2 times but may have been more. The black face stuff isn't exactly inspiring.

I'll be honest, I've got the day off tomorrow and am pretty drunk. So that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure someone more coherent will give a better answer than me.

Thanks for replying.

First off, the mandates were broadly the same as those in the majority of countries, including the UK. During the peak of Covid, you needed proof of vaccination to enter the country.

This affected a small proportion of truckers, whose routes crossed the US border (the US also required proof of vaccination btw, so this wasn’t even a matter within Canada’s control).

Most unvaccinated truckers were reassigned by their employers to internal routes, but a small number could not be reassigned, and others refused.

As to the protest itself - it would not have been allowed in the UK or most other countries. Canadians have less restrictions on the right to protest that Brits do.

In the UK, when Extinction Rebellion, Insulate Britain or whoever else try similar protests, they are cleared out by police on the same day.

The ‘Freedom Convoy’ occupied a large section of Canada’s capital, and disrupted the import and export of food and other goods into the country, for a whole month.

And they weren’t simply blocking roads in Ottawa, but causing a deliberate and active nuisance to residents, by blaring their horns 24 hours per day. Various residents (including vulnerable people) were all but trapped in their homes for weeks.

Elements of the convoy were also stockpiling guns and large quantities of ammunition.

Freezing the bank accounts of those associated with and funding the convoy was very much a last-resort and the only realistic alternative was sending in the army, and the violence that comes with that.

Ask yourself this, do you really, honestly think that if 1,000s of climate protestors occupied the City of London and blocked the channel tunnel, harassed residents for 24 hours per day, for a whole month, shutting down businesses, whilst being largely funded by donations from EU countries and stockpiling guns and ammunition, what do you think the UK would have done about it?

I can only assume that people who were supportive of the Freedom Convoy either did not really pay attention to the story or are violent anarchists. The right of protest is vitally important but a small minority of the populace holding the majority to ransom for weeks on end, particularly under threat of violence, should never be acceptable in a democracy.

I have family in Canada too, some who live in one of the nicer cities and some out in more remote areas.
Healthcare system is dire (long waiting times, free COVID tests didn’t exist there). Rents in the city are worse than London, and forget buying unless you are a multi-millionaire. Massive drug, homelessness and inequality problems. Gender woo-woo is off the scale nuts. My relatives send their kids to private school because the state system is falling apart. Also being badly affected by climate change - fire risk and drought risk are becoming a constant.

But the people are very nice and polite, even despite all that, and there’s lots of skiing and canoeing if you like that sort of thing….

I agree with some of this, but there’s a lot of hyperbole too.

Canada’s education system consistently ranks in the top 5 in the world.

Inequality is bad, but not quite as bad as in the UK.

You can buy an apartment in even the most expensive city, Vancouver, for about £350,000, but an actual house likely would start at closer to £1m. Housing prices are actually lower than in the City of London, but the issue is an absence of cheaper commuter-towns.

It’s no big surprise that Canada has a higher incidence of forest fires than the UK; Canada’s forests alone are 20 times larger in area than the whole of the UK.

Our public healthcare system is undoubtedly poor, though, and the level of homeless in some cities is genuinely shocking (although, oddly enough, we do have lower rates of poverty than the UK).

Covid requirements in Canada went well beyond needing vaccination to get in the country.

Many people had to be vaccinated in their jobs, the whole of the civil service, for example, no matter what they did.

They also encouraged all kinds of other employers to do the same, they took this approach because that meant it wasn't a government policy. But as examples, my co-workers husband works in the woods, he sells pulp products to a mill. He was required, in order to sell to the mill, to be vaccinated - even though he basically works outside alone. Similarly, another person I know who owns a gas station where trucks from a hospital fill up, was told he could no longer have the hospital contract if his employees weren't vaccinated.

Had I not been vaccinated I would have had to take an unpaid leave of absence from my job at the library. My husband's co-worker had to do s o - even though they were mandated to work from home up until this past month.

Many shops and restaurants required a proof of vaccination card, for a long time.

I had a friend visit from Scotland during the mask mandate, she found the attitude to things like making really oppressive. I was surprised as I thought Scotland was more gung-ho that way than much of the UK.

Why did this become a Canada bashing thread? Aren't we all in the Commonwealth fcou?
There is good and not so good aspects of each country. As far as Covid goes, UK is 7th for infection rates while "oppressive" Canada ranks 33rd. (Quick google search) That alone makes me become suddenly deaf to the Canada bashers moaning about.
Moving to another country is always risky. But, you only live once. I've done my share of travelling and found it immensely enlightening and feel I'm better of for it. I'd encourage the move. No one says it's forever.

Sorry you’re quite right, I was meaning to address the mandate that was the original subject of the Freedom Convoy protest.

I actually didn’t find Covid restrictions particularly bad, but we seemed to avoid the worst of it in BC. We certainly didn’t have the same level of restrictions, or for the same duration, as in the UK (but I appreciate that it varied by province).

Why did this become a Canada bashing thread?

Probably for the same reason that any thread about life in another part of the world becomes a bashing thread. There is a faction on MN who really think that the UK is some sort of superior place and anyone who dares to consider living anywhere else is treated with disdain. Those people also visit other countries with closed minds to anything good about the place, and they are extremely vocal about anything they percieve to be not as good as in the UK.

My dsis lives an hour outside Calgary. Her home is a big detached property on an acreage, she's got a lot of bang for her buck. She lives rurally, so relies heavily on her car/husband, which is fine when you're both in good health.

The winters are harsh, the cold (albeit less humidity) is cold, you need to prepare yourself for those winters.

I like Canada, the people are friendly, but humourless (like PPs have said) and much has been said about JT, though looking at what we've got in the UK at the moment, I think it's on a par.

My sis would not come back, it's claustrophobic here she says.

Depends what you want from life and an area.

Yeah Canada is awful. Don’t move here 🙄

I would never, ever move back to the UK but if this thread full of people who’ve never been here bitching about how bad it is puts off like-minded people then great. Make room for all the people from all around the world who do want to make a new life here

Oh yeah, and I married into a western Canadian family. Underestimate their sense of humour at your peril.

As a person who has lived in a few countries other than my birthplace - the grass isn't greener anywhere. Yes, you can be happy somewhere else but no place is perfect.

But just know, you will not leave problems behind you - each place has its challenges and moreover maintaining long distance relationships with family & friends is hard.

Dare I say it, it will never be 100% home but you can be content.

@LemonTreeSkies apologies for using "humourless" that was wrong and very harsh. I've met a fair few Canadians over the years, and I think it's a very different type of humour to what we have in the UK or maybe just mine

Sorry if I offended you or anyone else,

I can see why you think this OP. We've always thought Canada looks like the dream - so so beautiful, Canadians' reputation for being easy going and nice, decent healthcare etc etc. Some good friends moved over several years ago and I know are very happy. We visited them and loved our time over there (although not personally thinking of moving). From speaking to them I would say, so couple of things for you to research - I don't know about salaries, but do know they live in Toronto and lovely as it is property is actually pretty expensive. Infrastructure-wise things are surprisingly bureaucratic and behind - ie stuff like getting set up for taxes and bills and banking and registering for healthcare and all that administrative stuff you do when you move to a new place (and in particular a new country) - they found extremely painful, all the sorts of things we take for granted you can do online they had to do in person with paper copies of everything etc, and I think that's typical of just how stuff just generally works over there.

For us personally we wouldn't want to move far away from now aging parents, and also just culturally albeit it's not like America, I think I'm just very European in my approach so personally couldn't see myself living there, that's not to say it's not right for you though. We definitely can't wait to visit again.