AIBU to believe rich people should contribute much more?

[marcusian]

A bit tongue in cheek, but given that its almost impossible for poorly paid workers including care workers and nurses to strike, and that the government have given people earning over £100K a massive pay rise, what other ways could the most wealthy be made to pay?

My idea: - a new LUXURIES tax (think 50% VAT) on things ordinary people cant buy, like superyachts, airplanes, £10K+ dining tables, a box at wimbledon, £500+ handbags, £100+ football boots!

AIBU - No - they should pay more and heres my ideas how they should do it!
AIBU - Yes - leave wealthy people alone, its not their fault

"Absolutely this. They may work hard too but they certainly got all the advantages of a privileged upbringing and all the contacts, right accent etc to get their jobs"

Drivel.
EVERY high earner I know came from a council background to working class parents.
It's such a lazy belief that "rich" people do nothing, have not earned their lifestyle, contribute nothing, had a privileged upbringing, have posh accents, "know" the right people etc.
It must be galling to accept that most of the time they simply worked their arses off, rose through the ranks in their profession through sheer determination, sacrifice and drive to the point of physical or mental exhaustion, and deserve every damn penny they earn.

So much hatred for high earners.
It seems ingrained in a lot of people that they are "owed" a certain lifestyle or bank balance.
How about tackling the other end of the scale where able people feel entitled to things they have never worked a day in their lives for? Where they contribute nothing to society?

How much more do you possibly WANT from high earners?
Most people on this thread are talking about high earners in terms of the >100K salary, NOT the yaught owning super rich hedge fund managers. And these people already pay VAST amounts in taxes.

Indeed. I left school with no qualifications because it was a crap comp where I was bullied daily (inc physical abuse, theft etc, not "just" names). When I left, I took two low paid jobs, one being full time Monday to Friday and the other working in a shop on Saturdays and Sundays. Both were very low paid (below the NIC limit and before the NMW). Alongside working 50-60 hours per week, I did evening classes and self study to get my O levels, then A Levels and then I started doing accountancy exams (all self funded and using my annual holidays as study leave and for the exams). That was 8 years of hard graft, basically having no life besides working and studying. It all paid off when I qualified as an accountant and I now run my own practice.

Also, who is "evading" tax?

They already pay MASSIVE amount of tax, stop acting as if the high earners are now somehow "evading" paying what they owe when they contribute more than anyone else in society already.
You are acting as if tax has been abolished for the high earners!

Tapered removal of child benefits.

We have just sold some shares, for what we've made on the shares in profit, we have paid £400,000 in tax. It doesn't mean we deserve special treatment or to be worshipped but fuck me people need to get a grip with the whining of 'the rich need to pay more!' No we really don't, we pump so much more in than we get out and there's no nepotism or inherited wealth here, it's hardcore work with next to no life while only working towards achieving.

Be prepared to be flamed within an inch of your life while someone works out what you earned with your shares based on how much tax you said you paid. I'm sure some outraged person will be along in a minute to say you should have paid more tax, not had the shares in the first place, didn't work for them or don't deserve them, because, you know.......nurses and bin men etc.

Well done to you. Enjoy your money.

If you made enough profit to pay 400,000 in tax how can you say you aren’t getting much back out of society? It sounds like you’re getting far more ‘out of it’ than most people could ever dream of. Maybe you aren’t getting tax money directly deposited into your account but taxes go towards creating a functioning country and society in which people like yourself are able to create vast amounts of wealth for themselves.

I've re-read the post and nowhere does the poster say they aren't getting much back. They said they put more IN than they get back, that is not the same thing.
Her 400'000 tax bill is more tax than low earners will pay in their entire lifetime in ONE tax bill.

I think you’re not understanding my point. She made enough money to pay £400,000 in tax, it sounds like she’s getting plenty back from ‘the system’. Her taxes go towards creating a country and society where she is able to make huge such amounts money. She has gotten more back from ‘the system’ than 99% of people. Would she have been able to make such wealth for herself if she lived in a country with no infrastructure, no roads, no police force, no educated workforce, no accessible healthcare?

The wealthiest in society are those who have benefited the most from ‘the system’ we have created.

I agree with you @Turkey98. That's the question @Topgub asked and your example clearly demonstrates the point that wealth can be created.

@Topgub's issue is that either that they don't understand your example, they don't understand the principles upon which their own argument is based, and / or that they're just spouting random toxic divisory crap... my guess is that's it's all 3.

People earning a few hundred grand are not rich. They are taxed to buggery and will have mortgages/school fees to go with it.

Yes, they're better off than many but they already cover their seat at the tax-grabbing dinner.

It's the truly wealthy tax-avoiders that need to contribute and start playing fair.

@ExpectMore

@Turkey98

Didn't answer the question and her imaginary exame was just that. Imaginary.

It didn't give an example pf creating wealth that didn't exist.

It gave an example of swapping 2 bits of gold for apples.

The gold (wealth) wasn't created

There was no new wealth. Just wealth transfer

Which is the point you're determined to ignore.

Everyone cant be billionaires. There are too many people and not enough resources.

Everyone could probably be comfortable.

But only if the billionaires stop being billionaires.

And they (and you) don't want that

Cause its not faiiiiiiirrrrrrrr!!! Stamps feet. Itssss mmmmmyyyy mmmooonneeyyy

Petted lip

So, assuming the poster who paid £400k tax on their share disposal paid higher rate CGT, the overall profit was £2m.

Shares are a bit of a gamble and it's reasonable to assume the PP invested a fair whack with no guarantee of a return.

Arguably comparable to betting on a horse or playing the lottery. Profits you don't pay tax on...

Would folk be this angry if that poster had won the lottery or got lucky on the gee-gees, I wonder?

"She has gotten more back from ‘the system’ than 99% of people."

She also paid IN more than 99% of people.

"Cause its not faiiiiiiirrrrrrrr!!! Stamps feet. Itssss mmmmmyyyy mmmooonneeyyy
Petted lip"

on the flip side

"I want what I've not earned! I'm ENTITLED to it even though I don't earn it or am not qualified for it! It's not fair! Give me free money! Take more from the wealthy! Stamps feet, etc etc"

As ridiculous as your post.

@Lassie76 @BecauseICan22

Well done to you. Enjoy your money

Seconded! We'll done!

@Thesinisterdiagram

Your point has been consistently and conveniently ignored throughout

Higher earners some how contribute everything but take nothing and in no ay benefit from or make money from anyone else

@Thesinisterdiagram

The wealthiest in society are those who have benefited the most from ‘the system’ we have created.

Whilst I disagree with your point, even if it were to be true, they've benefited as a result of of hard work and graft... an option which is open to everyone (medical exceptions aside).

Your example of individual progression does not mean it's possible at a societal level. The fact is that a capitalist society operates on a pyramid system and the only way it can remain function is to ensure there are enough people at the bottom to support those at the top.

You simply couldn't have a functioning capitalist society if every single person had the ability and opportunity to progress up the pyramid and so some form of suppression must exist.

There was no swapping bits of gold for apples in the example though.

Thanks @Topgub. You've just evidenced at least the first point I was making. Have a nice day 👍

🤣 I'm pretty sure you've just copied and pasted some pp there 🤣

What is it with the UK's obsession with taxing rich people?? This is the depressing tall poppy syndrome mentality behind this country's inability to compete on an international level in entrepreneurship and business.

There's going to be a brain drain in this country of high earners and entrepreneurs. Why would anyone set up a business here if they are just going to be taxed to death? Why would a doctor stay here when they can make 3x in the US and not have to deal with some ludicrous pension cap and extortionate high taxes?

Almost every single person I know who has created real wealth either through business, saving, work, were immigrants (including my parents), or started with very little.

Why on earth would you want to disincentivize that through taxes?

Plenty of people ‘work hard and graft’ though. We don’t need everyone to be CEO’s and millionaire investors. We need care workers, nurses, retail and warehouse workers, teachers etc. Or do you think no one should do those jobs?

Hmmm...some interesting comments and some defensive drivel and vitriol just focussing on tax.

Perhaps time to bring us back to some basic ethical points:

• By rich i don't meaning earning £100K a year, i thought that was obvious unless you feel defensive about that. It is obviously contextual, personally I mean anyone in the UK earning over c.£250K or with assets of more than £2m.
• Yes we live in a global system that makes it harder to achieve fairness and kindness. However trickle down economics has been shown to be bollocks, as the massively increasing world and UK wealth gap clearly shows. So should you give up? Surely not if you have a brain and a heart. It has always been the case that democratic capitalism has to be fettered, the only question is when and where, and that is where we have gone badly wrong.
• I agree with some OPs that, life isn't inherently fair, which is why, whatever your faith or no-faith, as a society it is ethically incumbent on us to share with our poorest.
• There is an incredibly flawed presumption that we live in a meritocracy where people deserve what they get, that rich people got there entirely through endeavour, and poor people dont work hard enough or are too stupid.
• Significant research indicates that successful entrepreneurs are not primarily motivated by £ or financial reward or power, its rather about seeing an idea and enjoying making it happen/be used. It often makes no difference to them whether they earn £250K or £250m.
• If people want to leave the UK to earn more than £250K then frankly let them, absolutely no one is indispensible, and there are at least hundreds if not thousands of intelligent people in the UK who could do any of those jobs well.
• The majority of super-rich also readily acknowledge that "Success" in business is primarily based on luck, i.e. being in the right place at the right time. There is a frankly terribly arrogant assumption that success is not heavily influenced by background and capital. Whilst there may be the odd exception, they are a tiny number, there are millions of talented people brought up council estates in the UK, and there are hundreds of millions of talented people throughout the world, e.g. who dont have access to either capital, opportunity or good fortune. Is their poverty deserved? Are they all lazy or unambitious?
• Financial success is also more often than not based on ruthlessness and exploitation. Even the often cited-as-saintly Bill Gates is a ruthless business man. Not for no reason, it really is harder for a rich man to be good [enter the kingdom of heaven], than to find a needle in a haystack. Its good that some rich people aim to give all their money away, but its so very obviously immoral that they were able to earn such wealth in the first place! I for one will therefore continue to work towards wealth-redistribution.