AIBU to believe rich people should contribute much more?

[marcusian]

A bit tongue in cheek, but given that its almost impossible for poorly paid workers including care workers and nurses to strike, and that the government have given people earning over £100K a massive pay rise, what other ways could the most wealthy be made to pay?

My idea: - a new LUXURIES tax (think 50% VAT) on things ordinary people cant buy, like superyachts, airplanes, £10K+ dining tables, a box at wimbledon, £500+ handbags, £100+ football boots!

AIBU - No - they should pay more and heres my ideas how they should do it!
AIBU - Yes - leave wealthy people alone, its not their fault

Why is it the British seem to hate anyone who does well for themselves . Unless you inherit wealth is not 'luck' it is earnt through hard work , grit and stamina , putting yourself out , taking risks and responsibilities. Some of the wealthiest people I know have come from the toughest of backgrounds literally clawing their way up to be high achievers .
Why are we made to feel guilty when no-one dares challenges why poor people are poor . Some are poor through I'll health and there's nothing can be done and these are who we need to support . Others are poor through nothing but bad choices eg the countless women who bare kids to feckless useless men who cannot and will not support them or their kids , or the drug addicts , since when has taking drugs or excess alcohol ever been a good choice . All these so called ' vulnerables' who are only vulnerable through their own bad choices . Be grateful for the amount of tax the well off pay because you'd notice if all your services suddenly started to be charged for .
A persons start in life often sucks but it's what you do as an individual that shapes your future . I'd like to be a brain surgeon but I'm not intelligent enough . There are always compromises to be made and we have to accept that life isn't fair and make of it the best you can .

Or do you think no one should do those jobs?

@Thesinisterdiagram no, of course they should.

Not sure the relevancy of your question, particularly given there was an obvious answer to it?

For clarity, my position is: if people want more money, they should work for it, and have the opportunity to do so. If they don't want more money, then that's grand, no-one is forcing them to want more. My issue is with people that want more and seek to gain more through 0 work (be that development, additional hours, second job, study etc) but instead want to take what others have worked hard for and earned.

Hello =)
I'd like to state that the shares were part a of company that I started, sold on and retained my shares in which have been sold as part of a merger.

I missed time with my children, didn't have a relationship, didn't go on holidays, had no life outside of the business and broke my back day and night. I ABSOLUTELY worked for every penny and sacrificed a lot to get to where I am.

Either way, I've still pumped £400,000 BACK into the economy as well as all the other tax I pay and the public services I pay for which I don't take advantage of.

No one can convince me that my life has been easy and I got what I have through luck, entitlement, who I know or clever accounting.

But all wealth comes from clicking your fingers at the money tree don't you know! I've spent my youth clubbing, holidaying, shopping and investing next to nothing in my own growth and progression. THAT'S how I got to where I am. =)

"Defensive drivel"?

It's a FACT that high earners pay vast amounts of tax, almost half their salary.

How is stating that defensive?

People are entitled to be proud of what they have achieved if they have sacrificed everything to get there.
Some people expect the same rewards and riches without having to put the effort in to get there.

Cue "defensive drivel" about nurses, bin men, carers, retail workers etc.

You're wasting your time on here. I wouldn't even be commenting if I hadn't reached the stage of my life where I no longer have to work full time and am winding down from a stressful career.

The sheer ignorance shown by some posters castigating some posters for working hard and making money when they themselves clearly have the free time to post endlessly in the middle of the day.

Thank you both. We've just booked a trip to New York for a week and we're planning Lapland in December with our children. Hard work has been the absolute ethos for over 20 years of my life, I'm ready to kick back.

I would never begrudge or judge someone for how much or how little they have.
Those that have more, I aspire to.
Those that have less, I offer a hand to and ask them to come along for the ride. I have taught my children the same values. Life is good.

@Hearthnhome

No you're right. There wasn't

In this imaginary universe of apples and gold (5 apples and 2 bits of gold) wealth was created by turning the apples into cider and the gold into jewellery.

@Turkey98 failed to mention who was buying the cider or jewellery though.

Given that the only wealth that exists were the apples and gold.

Hey, I understand your view but think it's so narrow minded and bitter when some people really do belive the bullshit of the wealthy should pay more and more.

Also, I still work full time, I'm a bit of a workaholic but that's part of what you sacrifice you make money. I know what I've missed out on but I also know what I've created. I'm blessed but not through luck.

Have a great time, good luck to you.
Hard work pays off it would seem, who would have thought?

Prepare yourself for the incoming "stealth boast" accusers.

I note certain posters are fixating on what furthers their agenda. So let me highlight a tiny snapshot of my life.

I'd love to hear from anyone that wishes to tell me it's just 'luck'.

Utter crap.

@Lassie76

Nope

want what I've not earned! I'm ENTITLED to it even though I don't earn it or am not qualified for it! It's not fair! Give me free money! Take more from the wealthy!

I havent once said anyone should be given anything they haven't earned.

But again you're highlighting a point.

Do the mega wealthy really earn their money? Are they really more qualified?

Do you honestly think that someone deserves a wage of millions and another of 12k?

I dont

I know the rich have to pretend that they deserve their wealth but it is a bit laughable when you really think about it

Fuck it. Life really is what you make it, health permitting - I'm done feeling guilty for my achievements.

Lassie, whatever you're doing with your life, keep smashing it! I wish you nothing but the best 😊

Better now discuss the 8 bedroom house we've just bought for our family and my elderly in-laws. Oh shit, too late.

Hello,

You make a lot of sweeping statements.

Do I think an able adult who has had a free education and free health care and then free money because you know, they weren't given the same opportunities to progress, deserves free money in the form of tax that myself and millions of others (including Nurses and Binmen) pay in order to house them and carry them through this life? Absolutely not. But I and others still pay.

I can tell you I'm definitely qualified in the form of business acumen and a LLB 1st (which I did alongside my full-time job and raising my children), and yes, I EARN my money - always have.

Incidentally, how much do you pay in taxes?

I spend too much time on these socio-economic-politics threads, because I have plenty of time to read about the subjects -- which was the substance of my degree. I work part time, as a pension fund admin, while DH works out how to retire from the business he started while ensuring its continuation.

There are always a complete spectrum of posters, from the barking mad and mind-blowingly entitled (at either end of the L-R political arc) to the clever, thoughtful and sympathetic who bring valuable ideas and insights into areas where I'm uninformed. I like to think my posts are considered and balanced, because I'm no idealogue. When the facts change, I change my mind. I recognise lots of usernames from the sections I follow, and generally know who to read closely -- even where they hold different opinions.

It's laughable, and incredibly frustrating, how you're still missing the point. I guess it evidences that some people just don't get it.

To help:
Apples and gold are resources. They are "processed" (into cider, into jewellery) through the application of effort and innovation, the process of doing so has created wealth.

Reference your point re. the situation being "imaginary", it's common practice to use hypothetical situations to illustrate a point. If you have an issue with this practice then stay well clear of any services or products that have benefited from science....

And the high earners whom you were poorly lampooning in your post have ALSO never ONCE said the things that YOU said they did.

"Cause it's not fair...I want MY money!!" etc. This is what YOU said.

I was being sarcastic, clearly you don't understand that.

I happily paid and would have continued to pay 45%. I have charities on debit. But much like other high earners on this thread - stating my income is a matter of 'privilege and luck' drives me up the wall.

I came to London on my own, very young, from a war zone with £300 in my pocket - because that's how much my ENTIRE EXTENDED family could collect to give me a chance.

I worked 2 jobs to put myself through school. My non-EU tuition was 3x the one paid by majority of students. I also wasn't eligible for any loans or scholarships because I wasn't from the 'right' non-EU war torn country. I gave up my entire life for 10+ years - had no friends, relationships, didn't get to visit home, survived rape without anyone to support me... and kept paying my dues to this country. Today I pay more in taxes per month then I could afford to spend on food YEARLY when I first came to London.

And I'll be damned if I ever feel that I have to apologise for being a high earner to healthy individuals in this country - unless they too spent years eating mouldy bread, sharing single blanket with 5 family members in December in a bomb destroyed shelter, fearing neither of them would live to see the next day.

Take it by the logic applied on here we shouldn't be voting for Starmer as he benefitted from the 11 plus and attendance at a selective school?

This summarises so well why the Tories will probably still win the next election, because some of Labour's policies sound like some of the loons on this thread suggesting super tax of super yachts, while having no understanding of economics 😩

I agree.

Don't ever apologise for where you've come from, how you got where you are now and where you're going to go in the future - you have broken yourself to create the person and reality that your are living today. A healthy person has the same 24 hours in the day that you do, it's what you choose to do with those 24 hours.

Work ethic and resilience are not highlighted enough, success just falls into your lap doesn't it. Of course it doesn't! A majority of successful people work their arse off for it and they sacrifice a lot along the way.

Congratulations on your achievements, may you continue to prosper and I'm sorry about the rape. No one should have to suffer through that. I hope you're well and happy.

@Topgub

Do you honestly think that someone deserves a wage of millions and another of 12k?

I dont

Let's play with your world view a little @Topgub... tell me, in your view of the world in which no one deserves a "wage of millions" you're implying there's no differentiator in what individuals who earn that amount have to offer vs those that don't (as they don't "deserve" it)... am I right?

If so, then the obvious conclusion (given that there's no differentiator between those than earn that amount and those that don't) is that anyone could do what they do.

Given this... the next obvious conclusion is that anyone anyone can earn that money.

So... that all said, what's your problem? Surely everyone could do those jobs and earn that money if they wanted? And, if that's the case, you wouldn't have to tax the wealthy to redistribute their wealth and anyone that wanted to do those jobs could?

I'm expecting a reply that involves lizard headed men conspiring over a boiling cauldron to keep wealth amongst only a small number of fellow lizard-people with webbed feet... as I really do think some people would rather believe the world is conspiring against them rather than accept accountability for their own circumstances (eg they good or bad)

So you think there’s a well paid job or opportunity out there for everyone who would like one and is willing to work for it. That’s a nice idea, but I’m not sure it’s realistic. People don’t want to take what others ‘have worked hard for’ they just want to be compensated fairly for their own work. The average workers wage has stagnated while the rich have only gotten richer.

I think the tax system is fine as it is and the cut to 40% was to attract / keep higher earners in the country. Assets such as second properties are already taxed when they are sold.
The decisions you make when you are young have a huge impact on your finances as you get older. If you’re poor and you have a family young and rent while working part time , you’re very unlikely to ever be financially comfortable. No one ever wants to be told that their situations are often of their own making ...

I never understand the logic on Mumsnet. Post that high earners should pay more tax and that gets shouted down. Post that minimum wage should be increased thus increasing the amount of money people at the bottom have free to spend plus reduce the money spent on benefits and that is also shouted down.