Black Monday anyone? The tories should be in jail

[Upthebracket22]

The pound is now at its lowest point against the dollar since decimalisation in 1971 at 1.03. It’s probably going lower and the Bank of England will likely need to step in with an emergency interest rate rise today. Black Monday possibly?

All because of the mini budget on Friday. The Tories should be in jail. Especially if their rich backers were shorting the pound as it appears to get rich.

The best speech that he has ever given full of detail, hope, inspiration and basic common decency from a man that is no fake Blair enriching his own nest and ego but a man who puts his consummate skills at the service of a country he loves and cherishes. Come on Truss call an election and let's confine you lot to the dustbins of history a fate that is long overdue.

Does a Finance Act have to go through Parliament before any of this is implemented even though it was announced as some kind of financial event rather than an actual budget? And if a budget (November) is voted down, is that an automatic no confidence action? Or cue for endless shuttling between HOC and HOL?

Agreed. I wanted this lot gone before I heard it. I’m fucking desperate now.

This thread’s going to expire soon, anyone fancy starting a Part ll?

I will . Wait a mo...

@Eeksteek ”Labour will never be presented as a credible alternative, because they want to increase taxes and the people giving you the information to you need to vote for them will lose out to those tax increases. The invested nature of the media in the tax-dodging Tory policy means labour will always be presented as unelectable.”

Sounds like the revolution needs to be against the media… not a government party.

If the root cause is the media presenting biased information to protest their vested interests, then they’re the ones people should protest against.

A revolution against the media is likely to be more peaceful… non-violent protest of boycott.

@Upthebracket22 Can you do a Black Tuesday as Part II to this Black Monday, please?

Great thread I want part 2

It's not a finance bill. Therefore no vote needed.

Alternatively, if a vote were needed, but the government decided to skip it, what are you - or anyone - going to do ? Old Charlie will still sign it into law. That's his job.

Part 2 @Upthebracket22 thanks for the first thought I better get it started...

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4642779-black-monday-anyone-the-tories-should-be-in-jail-part-2

It's a matter of clearly demonstrable fact that the Labour party is not currently, in practice, a socialist party. Socialism means the public ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange. Starmer has ruled that out of Labour's policy offerring, expelled most of the left-wing members who espouse it and placed the party firmly in the hands of its right wing who oppose it.

Labour under Blair and Brown was obviously not a socialist party either, although Labour under Corbyn could possibly have been described as one. It's difficult because most people don't have a clear idea of the difference between socialism and social democracy, but most of what the Labour party has done in government and advocated in opposition is the latter, which far from being a "failed concept" is the stable basis for plenty of European countries who have higher living standards for most people than we do.

Socialism means the public ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange.

What's communism then ?

What's communism then?

The abolition of private property, all property belonging to the collective and being distributed according to need.

Oh dear rumours of a row between the 2 besties already - this shitshow is going to give Johnson's a run for our newly devalued money.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/27/no-10-denies-row-between-truss-and-kwarteng-over-sterling-crisis-response

Interesting. I believe it. But there must be something going on we have yet to realise because both Truss and Kwarteng are puppets for the party. The puppeteers must have their wires crossed.....

Also interested about the photo - when was it taken? Are they wearing Berkeley Homes gillets? The same company that paid the CEO a bonus of £75m from profits earned by exploiting the Help to Buy Scheme? Basically this was inflating house prices knowing first time buyers were subsidised by the Govt scheme.

By the way...Conservative voter here. Ready to switch. Do not let me down. Let go of the Huq's anger, the Raynor-type 'scum' commentary and build respectful politics. Focus on the positive in people and win people.

@potniatheron

as per my post the West is on a gradual downward trajectory so when I vote I do it not on the basis of who's got the big ideas, because none of the mainstream parties do, just on the basis of who looks the most vaguely competent. Kier Starmer looks vaguely competent and will hopefully be able to encourage his front bench to at least pretend to vague competency, so I'll probably vote for him. I think we could do with a change no matter how cosmetic, may as well give the other lot a go.

Do you think there IS a "big idea" that could reverse that downward trajectory, it's just that none of the major parties have thought of it or are willing to admit it? Or do you think they don't have it because no such idea exists, and the downward trajectory is inevitable?

I hope you do switch @1245J. Have you watched Starmer’s speech today? That’s how grown up politicians should behave.

No I have not watched it. I have bookmarked it for when I am less busy. I hope it has charisma.

I am trying to reconnect some of my senses to what the Millibrand brothers were saying about 10 years ago, but the white noise is drowning out everything at the moment. I want to reconnect with some of the things decent politicians said over the last 30 years - from all parties - to decide where I trust the middle ground to be. Maybe, we just need a believable Middle Ground party that rushes to the centre and sticks two fingers up to those who only see one side.

👋👋😀

I hope it has charisma

I think charisma is over rated. It has integrity, that works for me.

It works for you and it works for me. That gives us two votes.

The press have block votes, you know how it works. Charisma works for them. Integrity is second. Katie Price is more important than Jess Phillips, it seems. Yet even as a (past) Conservative voter I know the difference. It is charisma that gives the press the 'clicky links' and it is those clicks which gives them the revenue. Do not underestimate it over the next two years.

But charisma needs to be believable beyond that. Nobody will bet on a horse in the Grand National on the basis it will get to fence number 11 when there are 30 fences in the race.

Keir Starmer needs to be like Red Rum on steroids, partnered by Frankie Detorri and both aiming not just for this Grand National but the two after that. I am not feeling that yet.

It works for you and it works for me. That gives us two votes.

The press have block votes, you know how it works. Charisma works for them. Integrity is second.

I'm pretty sure it's protection of the interests of the ruling class that works first for them. Maybe charisma second, as a means to that end.

And that's the problem not just with Starmer but with the whole narrative about Labour reclaiming the centre. To be able to even make that argument, to have even a halfway fair representation of what he's saying presented to the people, he's going to need a deal with Murdoch. I'd be surprised if he doesn't already have one.

And that means that when push comes to shove, and these lovely ideas have to be turned into cold hard reality in the cold hard context of catastrophic levels of public debt inherited from the Tories, it will be Murdoch who has the last word.

I'd be happy with government from the centre if it were actually possible. In reality the centre is dancing on strings pulled by the right.

@1245J “I hope it has charisma.”

What’s the old saying? “Beware the charming man because Satan is also a charming man”

I agree that charisma isn’t something I associate with Starmer either.

I did associate charisma with Boris. He’s likeable. Even now… Don’t know what it is.

“he's going to need a deal with Murdoch”

I had to Google if Murdoch was still alive. The guy’s immortal it seems.

I realise it’s a deal with the Murdoch empire rather than with the individual.

High earners all moved to Switzerland.
Nonsense
Thatcher reduced it to 60 and then 40, but of course we all have to hate her for doing this.
The overall burden of taxation, both as a percentage of GDP and in absolute terms rose over the entirety of the time Thatcher was in power.
Her great skill was in shifting the burden to the less well off.

Exactly why trickle down economics don’t work for the public at large.