To think the US tipping culture is completely alien to British people

[Butterflyfluff]

Inspired by a thread about spending money in NYC but it’s what puts me off going to US or Caribbean again.

It seems everything has to be tipped

• All food servers
• Toilet attendants
• Room cleaning each day
• Every drink service, even in an all inclusive hotel
• Meal, even in a buffet where you serve yourself
• Basically anything where someone else is doing something for you

Why is this so ‘expected’?

This is one of the reasons why I'd never go on holiday to the USA or similar. By tipping you are just condoning and supporting the practice. Why do they not pay a proper wage and do away with tipping? There must be a reason - tax avoidance?

And actually, your average server in NYC is making about $8-$11 per hour in wages.

It's only in the South, Indiana, Wyoming and Utah that the $2.13 per hour figure holds true.

Individual states and cities have their own minimum wage.

The tipping culture allows people who are good at their job to make a very good living,

I'm also a bit baffled as to what a toilet attendant does. Not the cleaner, who cleans regularly; but somebody who just stands there, waiting to be given money every time somebody needs to go?! Do they maybe recommend a particular cubicle or give you instructions as to how to use it?!

It also seems ludicrous when you get people 'helping' you in a way that you never needed - carrying a light bag to your room, pressing a button in a lift, parking your car around the back, taking your coat from you, opening a door - and then expecting a reward for it. Imagine relying for your livelihood on a non-job that's just getting unnecessarily in people's way and holding them up by jumping in and doing pointless stuff - it just makes me think of when little kids are starting to learn about effort and reward and will invent needless tasks to 'earn' themselves some cash - but at least that's usually just from their own parents. Taking the squash that you paid for, mixing it with the water that you paid for, in a cup that you will end up washing - and then charging you for the privilege of drinking it in their cafe (the kitchen of the house that you pay for)!

It does seem to me that those who benefit from the tipping are on to a winner regardless, as long as they're forthright enough about it: it's 'accepted' that you will pay at least an extra X%, and if you don't pay that, you will be shamed/castigated/strong-armed into doing so, which means that many people will pay comfortably more than that to avoid any embarrassment of confrontation - but then there's the added expectation of even more for slightly above average service.

Despite what many people who receive the tips think, I really cannot see how it's actually for the best. If it were genuinely the most lucrative model, you would get lawyers and company bosses 'agreeing' a much smaller wage, but with the 'understanding' that you would boost it with a 'voluntary' (but not really) tip on top of that.

It is madness, however much a part of accepted culture it's become. Nobody is objecting to paying enough to allow for a fair wage for the staff and/or the required sales taxes - it's just a very basic desire that people want to know the answer to the ultra simple question "In order for me to have the agreed goods/services - legally and acceptably to you - I need to pay you.... how much?"

It's 'Running A Business 101' to be able to add up all the costs to yourself of providing something and then presenting the customer with a price that covers it all and also gives you an acceptable profit. So much more sensible and nicer for everybody than relying on charity/aggression and/or snarling at a customer who genuinely thinks you'll have been grateful for their business.

Not all states have a tipped and an untipped wage. Our state doesn’t. The minimum wage is the same if you work in a restaurant or an office. Even where there is a tipped wage employers are required by federal law to top up the employee’s wages to the federal minimum if they don’t make enough in tips.

The way I see it, having lived here for years and years, the price on the menu is the price of the food. The tip is the payment for someone taking my order, bringing my drinks and food, serving me. I see it as no different from ordering an item to be delivered to my home and paying the cost of the item and then paying a delivery charge. Except I get to decide how much I pay for the delivery.

It’s just a different way of doing things. It’s not wrong. Just different.

It's the same. 15%-20% with 20% being more the norm in restaurants now.
At coffee bars add 10% or so tip, if paying cash toss the change and/or $1-$2 into tip jar.
In taxis 15%-20%.
Same for hair salons/nails/spas.

The way I see it, having lived here for years and years, the price on the menu is the price of the food. The tip is the payment for someone taking my order, bringing my drinks and food, serving me. I see it as no different from ordering an item to be delivered to my home and paying the cost of the item and then paying a delivery charge. Except I get to decide how much I pay for the delivery.

It’s just a different way of doing things. It’s not wrong. Just different.

But do you not think that it encourages people to be 'over-assertive' in seeking to charm/guilt customers into paying considerably more than they are fairly earning?

Fair enough, maybe, in restaurants, but do you feel the same about 'invented' tasks purely in order to rinse you, rather than to provide any kind of valued service - say in hotels, where multiple people may be actually fighting to grab a little bag from you or open a door ahead of you and have their hands straight out for money from you, without you ever having a say in whether you wanted them to sell you a ridiculously simple 'service' in the first place?

I’ve stayed in AI in Barbados, St Lucia and Antigua and was specifically told that tipping was not necessary at all and management frowned on this.

As for the extra taxes in the Us, how confusing. It’s a shame they don’t add the tax on to the shelved item like we do with VAT and you see the breakdown on the receipt. It’s such a pita.
As for tips, I give minimum unless exceptional. I’m already paying for my food (which essentially should pay my servers wage).

I should add servers "tip out" to back of house/kitchen a certain percentage agreed upon at restaurants, but it's the service industry culture and servers know they all work together to make things easier for one another. Tipping is just cultural in NAm. The same way service charges are added to the chq on continental Europe; higher table prices for patio/view seating, etc (esp Greece). Just go with the flow, but know the expectations where you travel so you don't feel awkward and don't get taken advantage of (or think you are!)
I remember fighting with my taxi driver in Greece for picking up other passengers along the way (like a bus!) and charging us separately ... yeah, that's what they do there.
Someone mentioned less tipping in San Francisco... but, they have a sort of health plan tax that's added to the food bill for workers to get health care. SMH.
There are pros and cons about the different systems. Refusing to go along with the practices of the country/city you are visiting makes you an ass and a bad traveller. Reminds me of the Americans complaining about not being able to get bacon and eggs or pancakes at breakfast when I was in Greece. Luckily I spoke Greek and did so until I left the restaurant to ensure I wasn't thought to be American (English just sounds like English to foreign ears).

I’ve lived in the US for twenty years. Twelve percent used used to the the customary tip, but now it’s 20 percent. My husband will even tip more if we are at a favorite restaurant. It’s just part of the culture. Isn’t a big part of traveling adapting, respectfully, to different cultural norms?

Personally, I think it’s criminal how much of a pittance public sector workers are paid in the UK. The head of our public school district is on $200k+, as is the chief of police. Regular cops, teachers and nurses are all earning six figures in my area.

Sometimes the people with their hands out waiting for a tip are actually bums.

I live in the US and on a trip to a touristy Seattle area we were pulling into an empty parking slot on a public street and a man jumps in front of us as if he's directing us into the spot. When we get out, he blocks us from leaving and holds his hand out for money/tip.

Very well said. Thank you.

I feel very uncomfortable with the whole idea of tipping. I would rather it was just added to the bill, I overtipped for years and started avoiding using services because my overtipping made them both awkward and expensive! Then I read online about what was appropriate, but that didn't seem enough! Like I am saying what I tip equals their value? I genuinely don't grudge anyone the proper payment for a service well delivered and I want to pay that (in products as well as services). Visiting the US is easier for me because the tipping expectations are so clear. I enjoy clarity! I have gotten better with it all getting older but it is a strange thing isn't it? I wouldn't know what to go if I was a rich celebrity. I would just hand out money all day. Maybe I need help!

I don't think I used enough exclamation marks in my last post. I don't know why I do that....I need some sleep.

I genuinely don't understand why everyone is handwringing and loudly declaring that they WILL NOT GO TO THE UNITED STATES because tipping is so stressful. It's really not.

For a restaurant, 15% is the minimum, like a service charge. You can tip on top of that if you want to reward a particularly good experience. No one tips much over 20% unless they're trying to make a point (e.g. I am a pop star and I am being generous). Exception: in a diner, when your breakfast is a $3.99 special, leave a couple bucks on the table, even if that's above 20%. It's shitty to tip 75 cents

For a hotel, if you leave a few dollars on the side table each night, they'll be thrilled, particularly if it's a chain hotel along the side of a highway. In a fancier hotel, you tip more.

For bellboys, valets, etc., just give them a dollar (or a five) when they're leaving.

Finally, it's really not that different than being in the UK. I suppose it's a bit higher, but you tip in restaurants--plenty of places do an 'optional' service charge that isn't. You don't tip pubs, sure, but you always leave something for housekeeping when you visit a hotel (or, though I admit that this makes me sound like a wanker, when you visit someone's house for a weekend party). You also tip for taxi drivers, haircuts, bellboys, etc.

Basically, it's exactly the same, only it tends to be 10-12% for restaurants rather than 15-18%. So you're saying you refuse to visit an entire country because of the 5% difference in tipping for meals and the worry that you might be in one of the few places that still has bathroom attendants.

(And by "you" I mean "one," not some particular "you.")

Because they don’t pay a decent wage

I still refuse to tip over there
Says a lot about you tbh. Not something you want to brag about 🙄

It's ok not to go but going and supporting those who ensure the practice continues whilst punishing those at the bottom doing the actual work is pretty pathetic. You're pretty much giving a high five to those screwing over their staff 🤷‍♀️

It is what it is. That is the expectation and the culture. I respect those who refuse to go for that reason more than those who go and purposely stiff those on the ground.

Am in Ireland and while on minimum wage in a shop it used to drive me nuts when I’d get an average haircut and they’d be waiting for a tip. They were on the same pay as me! In the US I think they need everything they can get, sounds tough

I think the pandemic has made a huge difference to wages in food service, due to a tight k look snot market. My DD (17) is in her first job at a restaurant. She’s paid $13/hr, plus tips. That’s normal among her age group, with no previous experience. I’ve seen hiring signs for $15/hr in fast food restaurants.

*a tight labor market was what I meant to type!

Nancydrawn
That does sound stressful to me!!!

Most servers get 15% tip, and the Canadian government (don't know about USA) definitely assumes you make that and expects to see it in your tax return.

When I was younger, a place I worked at saw all the wait staff audited. Many weren't claiming "enough" of what the government believed them to be making in tips, and were fined on top of having to pay the back taxes.

Refusing to go along with the practices of the country/city you are visiting makes you an ass and a bad traveller. Reminds me of the Americans complaining about not being able to get bacon and eggs or pancakes at breakfast when I was in Greece. Luckily I spoke Greek and did so until I left the restaurant to ensure I wasn't thought to be American (English just sounds like English to foreign ears).

Yes, and it also makes your fellow countrymen and women pretty unpopular in restaurants in touristy places in the US, where British accents can easily be picked out. Don't imagine you're the first Brit ever to set foot in Boston or Chicago or Saint Louis or NYC, or that your server won't have prior experience of measly tips from people trying to make a stupid point about the local customs.

I think in Britain we are much more used to seeing the advertised price of something as the actual price we pay. Many restaurants now have a service charge included and state this.
Staff in hotels etc have better wages but we pay more upfront for the hotel.

US isn't like this. In shops the prices you see often don't include tax so it's actually more at the checkout than the price you see on the item. I remember in Florida DD wanted an ice cream and the stall had a sign advertising them at $4.99 so I gave her a $5 bill. She came back for more money as that didn't include tax!!

Just a different way of doing things

Things are further complicated in the US by the fact workers who try to organise for better conditions still face (brutal) union-busting - as with Starbucks & Amazon, for example, though workers persist in their efforts.

In the Airport Workers Union, the staff who provide assistance to elderly & disabled passengers are trying to renegotiate contracts to be paid minimum wage, rather than pittance + tips. Again, rate of pay & benefits (etc) vary between airports quite dramatically as per this Guardian article - but how many passengers would even think to tip for this?