To think the US tipping culture is completely alien to British people

[Butterflyfluff]

Inspired by a thread about spending money in NYC but it’s what puts me off going to US or Caribbean again.

It seems everything has to be tipped

• All food servers
• Toilet attendants
• Room cleaning each day
• Every drink service, even in an all inclusive hotel
• Meal, even in a buffet where you serve yourself
• Basically anything where someone else is doing something for you

Why is this so ‘expected’?

Thank you for this… I’ve found it’s always non-servers and bartenders who make the case for no tipping/higher hourly wage.

@knitnerd90 Just googled and the 2022 federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr.

If you know people earning $2.13/he. nowadays, that’s illegal, talk about exploitation. ☹️

That's the regular minimum wage. There is a specific lower wage for tipped employees. Legally if their tips don't bring them up to the minimum the employer must top it up. ("Tip credit" is the max part of the tip the employer can credit towards minimum wage.) But not all employers do.

www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped

@knitnerd90 That’s truly scary. I’d never looked into the details. Thanks.

So, to translate your post…

That’s how people are paid over there.

But I just think “Fuck ‘em”

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll
The objection that you don't tip your doctor or your lawyer doesn't really hold water.
Just as in a restaurant you pay for different aspects of your experience - food, clean table, refills of water, service of food, pouring of wine, explanation of menu items, etc - you pay separately in the US for your medical services. If you're having a baby you will get a separate bill from the OB/Gyn, the anesthesiologist, the hospital, the pharmacy, the pediatrician, the NICU and on and on and on. All of the medical specialists charge for professional services they render, and the hospital has a per diem charge which is itemised. Patients expect a heap of bills from everyone who was involved in their care. And there are plenty of lawyers, mainly PI, but also class action specialists, who work on the basis of taking a cut from a settlement or a judgement.

The women who 'work' in the toilets are not always employees. Their tip is their only wage, they also pay for the cosmetics you sometimes find.

Coincidentally the same kind of person who says that tipping in the UK is an alien concept 😂

The objection that you don't tip your doctor or your lawyer doesn't really hold water.

Just as in a restaurant you pay for different aspects of your experience - food, clean table, refills of water, service of food, pouring of wine, explanation of menu items, etc - you pay separately in the US for your medical services. If you're having a baby you will get a separate bill from the OB/Gyn, the anesthesiologist, the hospital, the pharmacy, the pediatrician, the NICU and on and on and on. All of the medical specialists charge for professional services they render, and the hospital has a per diem charge which is itemised. Patients expect a heap of bills from everyone who was involved in their care. And there are plenty of lawyers, mainly PI, but also class action specialists, who work on the basis of taking a cut from a settlement or a judgement.

That kind of proves my point, really. You get separate BILLS from each provider; class-action lawyers work for an AGREED cut, negotiated and presumably signed for in advance.

You don't have an unwritten hope/expectation that the customer will give you somewhere within a range of a commonly-accepted additional amount - known as a tip, rather than contracted payment for goods or services - one that requires you to argue/get angry/challenge/humiliate yourself if it isn't paid (or not as much as you were reckoning on), rather than simply threatening/beginning legal action for provable breach of contract.

I don't object in any way to paying a fair amount, and I do not condone people who refuse to take part in the way things are and refuse to tip, when that is the accepted way. I agree that the whole tipping culture IS subsidising employers, but the answer to that is not to take the service anyway and then punish the server for the system. My beef is purely with the method of charging, whereby prices are not clearly agreed and assured as part of a normal transaction.

I'm fine with charity/community projects that, instead of having prices, just invite people to pay what they want or can afford; but then, you can't get angry with people who do just that, when what you said isn't really what you meant.

This thread is going around in circles - some people are claiming that serving staff can only just survive with the tips and others are saying that they wouldn't want a more straightforward agreed-price system, because they can make lots more from tips. It just adds even more confusion than already exists.

This thread is going around in circles - some people are claiming that serving staff can only just survive with the tips and others are saying that they wouldn't want a more straightforward agreed-price system, because they can make lots more from tips. It just adds even more confusion than already exists.

No, most hospitality staff wouldn’t want to move to an agreed price system, because they have had decades to get used to the current norm which is understood and accepted by the vast majority of people in the country they live in, and appeasing tight-fisted British tourists isn’t really their prerogative. If your employer suggested halving your salary because they wanted to make their pricing structure more transparent for customers, I can’t imagine you’d welcome it with open arms, either. A good server in a busy restaurant can cover perhaps seven or eight tables over a two hour period, generating at least ten - thirty dollars in tips per table depending on group size, or anywhere between $100 - $200. Why would they be in favour of being paid a flat rate of e.g. $20 per hour or $40 for that same amount of effort instead so that customers didn’t have to think about the math for service charge? Few people want to change the status quo if it means making themselves much worse off.

And saying a restaurant could pay higher wages than that if they generated more money through higher menu prices in a flat charge structure ignores the reality that most people would balk at opening a menu in an average pub in a small town and seeing a burger listed at $40, even if they were told it was so staff wages could be higher. People are far more amenable to “extra” charges than they are higher “outright” ones, and this is borne out in research, however much they say otherwise.

I suspect that there is a cultural element based on differences in the class systems in the UK and the US. The person who waits tables in the US generally is not viewed as menial either by himself/herself or by the people they are serving. The waitstaff view their tips as payment for the service they provide, and very likely the table they are serving contains at least one person who has waited tables at some point in their lives.

Also for those posters who say that friendly customer service is fake in the US don't really understand US culture around work. Certainly there is an element of providing good service in hopes of a better tip, but there is also a culture of self-respect in doing a job well.

appeasing tight-fisted British tourists isn’t really their prerogative. If your employer suggested halving your salary because they wanted to make their pricing structure more transparent for customers, I can’t imagine you’d welcome it with open arms, either.

Have you not read my clear statements that it isn't about paying less as a customer, it's about the expected price being agreed and clearly set.

If half of my wages depended on hoping that customers would pay it separately and my employer said that, instead, they were going to make it part of my official guaranteed salary, with both 'halves' paid directly from them, without the customers contributing (or not, at their whim), why wouldn't I jump at that? Of course I would!

And saying a restaurant could pay higher wages than that if they generated more money through higher menu prices in a flat charge structure ignores the reality that most people would balk at opening a menu in an average pub in a small town and seeing a burger listed at $40, even if they were told it was so staff wages could be higher. People are far more amenable to “extra” charges than they are higher “outright” ones, and this is borne out in research, however much they say otherwise.

I get that it's ingrained into US culture that people are used to seeing an artificially lower price, on to which they automatically add the tip, and thus would feel they were being ripped off (at first, at least) if the system changed and they paid a transparent all-in price instead of being expected to pay an addition to the stated price. It's not my place to tell them they shouldn't, if that's what they genuinely prefer - but any reasonably intelligent person must realise that the amount they pay is still the same.

I would question whether 'amenable' is the full story or if it's just that they kid themselves that they're getting a bargain and compartmentalise/justify it in their heads as two different things. Plenty of people will justify buying things based on the basic price and 'conveniently' ignoring the extras and running costs. If somebody told you that they would sell you something for $40 or for $30 + an extra $10 and asked you which 'deal' you wanted, would most people really be fooled by the 'choice', though? I don't doubt the findings of the research that you cite, but my point is that this is deliberately-obscured psychological conditioning and not rational thinking.

A lot of non-tippers on this thread and others like them say they would pay extra for service that was "above and beyond".

Can anyone give an example of the sort of service that prompted them to loosen their purse strings so waiting staff have a transparent idea of what is expected of them?

I would question whether 'amenable' is the full story or if it's just that they kid themselves that they're getting a bargain and compartmentalise/justify it in their heads as two different things

Listen up, American folks! Your problem is that you get bamboozled by shiny things and just can't add up as well as us careful British people.

Why? Do you too anywhere? What a horrible attitude

I also think the issue is made worse by the US and UK definition of good service being two different things.

When I go out for a meal I like to be seated promptly, water provided and drinks and meal orders taken and delivered in a timely fashion.

I realise that some of this is outside the servers control, so I try not to penalise them tip wise if I can see they have a big section to serve, or the kitchen appears to be slow.

It's nice if they can answer questions about the dishes or if not check promptly on them.

I also appreciate courteous service, a little bit of chat primarily focused on the meal and our enjoyment of it.

In the US there seems to be more of a focus with building a personal rapport with the customers by telling you their name and occasionally personal information . Sometimes the wait staff would sit at our table when taking our orders which I found very disconcerting. But often little genuine attention to detail like making sure glasses were filled and water jugs topped up.

We had genuinely amazing service recently in Dubrovnik at one restaurant, and now I'm trying to pin point what made it so good. I think it was because the waiter validated our choices " Yes that dish is a popular one with our clients " and made helpful suggestions when they appeared necessary or when asked, but it wasn't overwhelming or personality based.

Listen up, American folks! Your problem is that you get bamboozled by shiny things and just can't add up as well as us careful British people.

Completely misrepresenting and ignoring much of what I wrote.

Plenty of people in plenty of countries and plenty of scenarios will - wittingly or otherwise - pay extra if the price is couched one way but not if it is presented in a more transparent way. The American tipping system is just one of these many scenarios in which SOME people will be fooled. Of course, plenty of American diners (most, I'd guess) will not be fooled at all, but will accept the way things are, be willing to pay the actual overall price and go for it with full knowledge.

I thought it was a good summary but if you disagree I expect you'll tell us at length.

Yes, the calculation of percentages is taught in US schools. We do understand that we are going to pay more than the price of the meal. (We can calculate the sales tax in our heads as well.)

I thought it was a good summary but if you disagree I expect you'll tell us at length.

I did, in my last message, ten minutes before your above reply.

A question for folks from US.

What happens to servers on the very low wage plus tips (I think someone mentioned $3.19) when the restaurant has very quiet periods at certain times of year? If very few customers come through the door then do they not get paid except for the $3.19 per hour?

Yes, the calculation of percentages is taught in US schools. We do understand that we are going to pay more than the price of the meal. (We can calculate the sales tax in our heads as well.)

I'm heartened to hear that. I'm not too bad at math(s) myself, but I just prefer, as a customer, for businesses not to expect me to break down all of the many costs to them of delivering a product/service.

Stores have to factor in the costs of heating, lighting, business rates/taxes, the provision of parking and toilets etc. etc. - so I wonder why they don't all give customers a long list of constituent costs for them to add up before deciding if they want to buy whatever it is.

This discussion also seems to have largely focused on restaurants and mainly ignored the endless non-jobs (even irritants, imho) in hotels for which you're expected to keep handing out dollars, but I personally find the latter custom even weirder.

I get that it's your culture and the way that you prefer it, which is of course totally fine - it's absolutely not for me to tell you that you're wrong to like it that way. I'm just harking back to the original point of this thread, which asked if US tipping culture is alien to Brits - and, as a Brit, my opinion as just one person is 'yes'.

By law, they have to be paid minimum wage, so the restaurant would have to make up the difference. What sometimes happens, though, is that they are laid off during slow times, or employees leave voluntarily in search of better situations. Right now in my state restaurants are short-staffed; it's easy for a good waiter to find other employment.