Kwarsi Kwarteng - is this what's coming next?

[wotjusthappend]

This old BBC article from 2015 gives an interesting insight into Kwarsi Kwarteng's right-wing views on the welfare state:

BBC News - Turn benefits into repayable loan, says Tory group
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33092329

(He's the new chancellor by the way)

Explains a lot.

Very frightening what he’s getting away with.

I just give up. Nothing surprises me anymore.

Disgustingly believable

You couldn't make it up as the cliche goes.
Evil.Quite apart from it being unworkable and a disincentive to work. What next? Workhouses?

It’s a bit of a misleading headline. It actually talks about a very specific set of circumstances rather than a general rule

Please explain how it is more of a disincentive work than the fact that we give out benefits in the first place?

Scary times!

Please explain how it is more of a disincentive work than the fact that we give out benefits in the first place?

Plenty of people that work (some full time) claim benefits!

Oh wow. But then again, why am I surprised?

i assume you haven’t read the article or the post to which I was replying

Kwarteng is a twat, there's no getting away from it.

It is tiring trying to argue against this madness all the time, but people are able to count the money in their own pockets and this high-risk budget is not something that can be hidden as the government has decided to favour a very small minority.

It’s quite an interesting set of ideas. (Please note that ‘interesting’ does not necessarily mean ‘good’.)

It does seem a bit confused, though.

On the one hand he is saying that the welfare bill is too high because ‘too many people are eligible’.

But then he also suggests centralising maternity and paternity pay, and offering government-backed loans to young people in place of benefits. Which would surely increase the welfare bill, and by quite a lot.

Side note: doesn’t it feel archaic to read an article where George Osborne is chancellor? Feels like a million years ago!

I've just done a blitz google on this book Trust, Kwartang & others co-wrote. So summary here for me (& others?)

"shock therapy" said FT, in 2012. I'd say the FT commentary is more observational than anything, but not especially supportive. This is The FT we're talking about.

Buzzfeed summary of the book: Brits are lazy (repeated theme) for which soft parents & Boomers are to blame, too much tax disincentivises people, market economy can fix all this especially if unregulated and ... govt debt is bad. Hahaha. I guess they decided to forget about that one.

2 star ratings on Amazon & Goodreads. One summary on GoodReads of the message “When we seek to protect the vulnerable we limit the freedom of the rich and the privileged – and that is a disgrace.” Amazon reviews include words like "tripe" and "drivel" a lot. Quite libertarian. Fan says it contains "hard truths." A very specific repeated criticism is that it's very selective of evidence, so an ideological rant not unbiased appraisal. I didn't realise Raab was coauthor. William Podmore's 2013 review on Amazon is especially good, "They claim that economic problems have cultural causes, and therefore cultural cures." (curing laziness)

I suppose the bottom line is, we're all getting a stiff dose of economically harsh medicine because we (you me but not the 5 authors) are "too lazy". That's the big message. Truss Kwartang et al view Brits as lazy skivers who raise our children badly.

He's part of a cohort of tory MPs who believe Britons are inherently lazy and too reliant on handouts and so forth. The welfare system viewed as a perk which simply doesn't exist in many other countries which ostensibly seem to 'get by'. I don't think he's even trying to disguise it. Deregulation, supporting the rich, penalising the poor. This is Toryism 101 - no-one should be shocked. What I do find bemusing though is the amount of people complaining, these are the same people who vote them in time and time again. And I do think it has something to do with people feeling as though we should all be miserable together lest some immigrant somewhere gets a handout or accommodation on the state.

But the Fail is telling everyone that it’s great

Is this REALLY going to work, or could it be the straw that broke the camel’s back and people will finally now wake up?

Apart from anything else it's absolutely wild that someone on 50k per annum and a billionaire are now ostensibly in the same tax bracket. The billionaire will be able to find loopholes and all sorts to avoid paying tax on their wealth but the middling manager on 50k PAYE will have no such luck.

For clarification I don’t vote Tory but there’s a part of me wondering if people wish we still had BoJo. I don’t condone the parties etc. but I much preferred his populist Tory policies to this Truss and co. right wing bollocks that appears to have no grounding in actual economics that works.

I think it’s a bit mad, I imagine there would be a lot of kids who would just give up totally if they thought they had to pay back that much.

He’s not wrong about the contributory bit though, France calculates your out of work bens on the basis of previous contributions which I think isn’t unfair. Means you don’t face a catastrophic financial event if you lose your job and aren’t in work immediately.

Maternity and paternity is an interesting one, it may work to the benefit of some women but many I know have good packages and would not be happy to have that removed for a lesser government one. But then I guess companies who value their staff would still offer some maternity or paternity packages. Would be good for lower paid workers I imagine.

It is time for a more fundamental change though, the 'Conservative' (what a joke, they do not conserve anything!) party has had the reins for 12 years, they have had internal crisis after internal crisis, they have fucked the economy and NHS, and are now genuinely dangerous in economic terms.

I don't want Johnson back, I want a general election.

I don’t believe you should have to pay back benefits. However, I do believe that if f you receive benefits, you should work in return. I’m not talking about working tax credits or disability, but those on income support who don’t work. It’s an opportunity to learn new skills and remain employable, and help in the community.

The costs of implementing this would be massive and you would end up paying far more out than currently. You would need to supervise every worker if in industry or set up a system where workers were put to work in a state-run service. You would either undercut paid workers and put more people out of work or you would require much higher taxation to fund the schemes you would ask the unemployed to do.

It doesn't stack up.

Lets ask why certain people don't work or only work 15 hours a week ? Not all are 'skivvers' of which I suspect there is an ever decreasing number. Life on benefits is hardly one of luxury. Most will have caring responsibilities and such like and working is logistically impossible/ financially not worth it. Agree about providing decent skills training but with high quality child care provided. Now that would be progressive.

There is someone on another thread at the moment basically saying it doesn't suit them so they prefer to work less and keep their benefits.

Isn't this similar along the lines that mortgage interest support payments are a loan not a benefit
Or that you have to have X years of national insurance credits to get a full state pension.

Why should someone 18-25, without disabilities, immediately be entitled to unrepayable universal credit when they haven't worked previously.
It then puts them in a far better position then someone that has gone to university and come out with 50k debt .

If you then say the person with a degree now has far better opportunities - true but they have put the work in for that .

So you can have debt and a degree , debt and no degree or a job