Kwarsi Kwarteng - is this what's coming next?

[wotjusthappend]

This old BBC article from 2015 gives an interesting insight into Kwarsi Kwarteng's right-wing views on the welfare state:

BBC News - Turn benefits into repayable loan, says Tory group
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33092329

I wonder how on earth do people manage who are forced to claim UC; low-paid workers and the unemployed. An enviable lifestyle choice it is not..,

The working middle classes are going to be destroyed economically when decent health care and education and home security! are only available to the wealthy and in the private sector and their salaries are impoverished by inflation. And then there's the scandal of affordable housing becoming ever dire, particularly in the SE.

It's looking like they have given up on winning the election and are just robbing the place blind before doing a runner. either that or they actually so deluded and think this will somehow work. I've never seen anything like it. If the pound and the FTSE continue to nose dive - with the Bank of England having to jack up interest rates - will they be forced into a U-turn? They are literally trashing the economy doubling down on the Brexit punt.

Former US Treasury secretary Larry Summers warned the pound could fall below the dollar due to the huge spending commitments outlined by Mr Kwarteng.
"It makes me very sorry to say, but I think the UK is behaving a bit like an emerging market turning itself into a submerging market," Mr Summers told Bloomberg.
"Between Brexit, how far the Bank of England got behind the curve and now these fiscal policies, I think Britain will be remembered for having pursuing the worst macroeconomic policies of any major country in a long time."

Appreciate that at least you’re not rude, even if a bit patronising.

so just to be clear, the rents are so low that your niece's boyfriend can afford it on their low benefits, but also so high people can't afford it when in work?

It isn't partronising to discuss something that is widely understood. Our quality of life is being wrecked. We are all far poorer than we were ten years ago. That is the British reality.

All this scrounger bollocks was just cover for that to be done to everyone.

Is it any coincidence that the most diverse cabinet in UK history has the children of immigrants who came from developing countries and their families by dint of their intelligence, hard work and most important;y leaving the country of their birth rose from the dire situations they were born into? They probably honestly and sincerely believe that being poor is a character defect and almost despise it.

The Return of the Scrounger Myth.

tribunemag.co.uk/2022/07/welfare-state-social-security-universal-credit-austerity-tv

Why stop at paying back UC as a debt when back in work?

We should pay back medical care costs too, schooling for kids is an obvious one too, after all they've contributed nothing at all.

but that isn’t what was being proposed in the article. If you want to discuss that, start another thread

I had almost free university education, I could claim benefits in those holidays (really!). I benefited from low house prices so now own my own home. Why should the young be excessively penalised so that we can live comfortably in our maybe well-earned retirements? Because the old go out to vote in their droves and by a goodly majority vote Tory that's why.

Come back Rishi all is forgiven.

When you succeed in an unjust system it is psychologically attractive to justify the system rather than accept the influence of luck. Luck is a scary thing as it can turn from good to bad, believing you had unique qualities is much more comforting. And the opposite of course is others must have unique failings in order to be in a worse position than you.

You have been duped into believing that taking money money from those who make it and giving to those who don’t, many by choice is the only way to run an economy. There are other ways to re distribute but have people earn it for themselves in the process. High taxes don’t mean equivalent services.
Most people on this thread are interested in how much the ‘rich’ pay, not interested in return on investment. That’s more of a deep rooted Marxist irrational hatred of the rich, rather than an interest in getting the best use of the vast amount of taxes that are paid.

Apparently Sunak did not go into the chamber yesterday

at 'Marxist'

Yeah, Britain is just full of Marxists. That's why Thatcher and Blair won such massive majorities, all those Marxists.

Who made you a moderator?

Its reasonable to suggest that if you want benefit claimants to pay back benefits, why stop at UC.

Oh so you’re questioning their lives experience? That not very progressive or believing in diversity, is it. You can’t pick and choose when to be progressive. Now that it doesn’t suit your narrative, immigrants’ children’s views about politics are a problem, for you. The left are not known as hypocrites for nothing.

The start of a slippery slope indeed, if benefits proposals succeed. Extreme examples perhaps, though I think medical will come up again in the future.

Exactly. So now you know that these policies are very popular. The minority can still protest in this echo chamber.

As a matter of interest, what other countries in the world are pursuing this, or a similar, economic model?

Are we in an unseemly rush to join the ranks of countries with low credit ratings, grotesque inequality, minimal public services, high corruption, a massive underbelly of extremely poor, exploited workers with minimal employment rights, high pollution and rapidly failing ecosystems? Surely the time for high borrowing and spending and lower tax, if ever, was long before we had run down our infrastructure and public services to the point of dangerous inadequacy, so that we could actually build something worthwhile with the borrowed money, rather than simply try to stop the whole lot imploding, and when we still had a reputation for sound financial management? It all feels to me like living through a car crash, preceded by the worst possible decisions being made at every turn for years.

Too late

Inevitable though it’s worked out as it has - I thought people mad for demanding the shift we’ve got by annihilating spenders. But not surprised

That’s more of a deep rooted Marxist irrational hatred of the rich, rather than an interest in getting the best use of the vast amount of taxes that are paid

Thats not my experience over my life time. On the whole people are very interested in how money is being spent.

There also isn’t a hatred of the rich, there is a hatred of inequality. Society can not exist without collective aims and funding. Feudalism brings us back to serfdom and capitalism only heads one way without restraint.

Life experience is valid but its not without bias or lack of perspective. If a life experience is contradicted by verifiable facts then why should it be so important for someone to preserve an untruth?

Exactly, yield on gilts i.e borrowing costs two years ago where 0.5% they are now 4%.
This also wrecks your DC pension too.

Thats the min cost you'll get on a mortgage going forward.

No one is following Truss's model and for good reason or as a Govt minister was asked on Sky this morning:

"How come France with a higher overall tax burden than UK, has higher long term growth rates and productivity?"

Frances Corporation tax is 26%, being cut to 25%, ours has been 19% since 2016.

He couldn't answer.

I could make an argument that the State Retirement Pension should be means-tested on both income and the value of your housing. After all NI contributions weren't hypothecated into some separate fund whose proceeds would pay for them. Indeed they are paid for by the taxes of increasingly hard pressed working people. If you are living in too big a house then downsize and realise some funds to pay for your lifestyle don't expect the state to do it.

I don't want that of course but there's a cruel logic there that's incontrovertible. Grey-haired 'benefit scroungers' at their finest whilst they browse through some Jet2 catalogue looking for an all-inclusive in Gran Canarias whilst reading the Daily Mail oblivious or uncaring to their carbon footprint.

I train people in my warehouse to do basic jobs like picking.

The vast majority drop out very quickly because they have poor literacy or numeracy or are simply overwhelmed by the busy, bustling, noisy environment around them.

It is painfully obvious that most of these trainees have undiagnosed or undeclared SEN. An ex-colleague of mine who works as a trainer for a huge UK company says he sees exactly the same issues in his own line of work.

The next 20 years will see massive automation of production and transportation methods, meaning the number of basic unskilled jobs available will simply collapse. The same will happen in the medical and teaching fields, IMHO.

We do not need more people in this country, in light of the above. We need to decouple the generational pension obligation and install a system where each individual pays for their own pension, not that of their parents.

This is just a warning that the UK social security system is going to collapse.

Mark my words, there will be no benefits system at all in 15 years or so. No NHS in 20 years time, and no pensions for Generation X or below.

If you can get out of the UK I strongly advise you to do so, because it's back to the Victorian era from here. All your rights will now be taken from you if you are poor or even low income and you will be forced to work in one of the new charter towns where UK laws do not apply, or starve to death. Next stop: land clearances and property seizures again - your homes will be taken off you and you will be herded into slum flats and forced to work for scrip.

All of which is EXACTLY what happened to your ancestors just over two centuries ago in the enclosures/highlands clearances.

Straight back to slavery. Straight back to serfdom.Well done folks, well done. We had a good run post WWII but now it's back to normality.

Great.