to think teachers shouldn't swear

[2shoes]

ok ds is no angel and a normal nearly 16 year old. but i was a bit shocked that the teacher screeched at him and used the f word.
I wasn't there so can not judge the situation. but just thought that a teacher would have enough vocabulary to not have to resort to swearing.(not slagging teachers of here as i have only admiration for the ones on here)

I am not in any way shape of form excusing swearing by teachers, have never done it myself despite teaching in a very challenging school in circumstances where you feel pushed to acting in a manner which is not proffessional. But it would be most odd if your son was working and a teacher just got up and swore at him.

But to repeat myself I am not saying that it was right to swear no matter what the provacation.

our 2 eldest sons attend a very good catholic school (well the best we have anyway) i was appaled and amazed that the drama teacher told them what buggery was .....then explained the word bast* and its meaning then continued his run with the sexual connotations in romeo and juliet .....rather too graphic dont cha think?
i have boys and im sure they werent too shocked but i dont think dh would have been so keen if we had had daughters? whats going on in education today??

How old are your sons? I don't think that is shocking but maybe I have been hardened and desensitised in my current post.

I echo what others have said about something not quite ringing true.

You have your only son's side of the story, interpreted through his 16 yr old self-absorbed focus (and most teenagers of that age self-absorbed, no way around that).

It would be professionally suicidal for a teacher to behave in the way your son described, utterly unprovoked. There must be more to it than he is telling or noticed (see above).

If only more parents realised how very differently their children behaved whilst at school, schools and parents really could be singing from the same hymn sheet and doing a far more effective job. It's not wonder teachers feel stressed, being shat on (ha- can do it here!) by pupils, parents, management, the government, Ofsted, the media etc...

If more parents cut teachers some slack, and recognised that most nowadays are a)well-trained, b) models of restraint, c) in teaching because they believe they can make a difference, we could all stop worrying where the next specious lawsuit or complaint is coming from. I really do think that schools worked better when parents believed them over their own child...

slug says 'but in my experience, the default setting of 16 year old students is lying.'
Really? Can't say I've ever noticed that but my teen experience comes from home educated teens. I think thats rather a broad statement to make and very unfair.

I don't think we should automatically assume teachers tell the truth either. When I was 13 (25 years ago now) I didn't have a PE kit for the start of term. My mum couldn't afford one. So, in I go to PE lesson and inform the 3 PE teachers (all women) of this. The women replied 'tell your bloody idle mother to get a bloody job and buy one'. She then made me do the lessons in knickers and bra while standing around making nasty comments about my body.
So I reported this to mum who went steaming into the school.
Guess what. All the teachers closed ranks and said all teenagers lie, that I was making it up etc etc and, being 25 years ago, my mother believed them and I got a hiding.
I've never forgotten those lying teachers and how defenceless I was as a child.

Excellent post Duchesse. Especially the bit about teenagers being so self-absorbed that their "version" of the truth may not be the full reality of the situation; even if they are not actively setting out to lie. I've worked with teenagers for many years and whilst they are mainly lovely, they, inevitably of course, filter everything through their own emotions/visions etc and really will say anything for the most part if it means they will avoid trouble.

Needmorecoffee - your story is awful and I feel so sorry that this happened to you - but I feel that events like you describe are very unusual.

I really feel that there is more to this story than your son is telling you, sorry, 2Shoes.

I don't think so Jan. I took my kids out of school after bullying from teachers. That was 8 years ago. teachers are human.

no, teachers shouldn't swear at a kid.

yes, I agree that you haven't got the full story from your son.

since he is the 'offended' party, he should have now qualms in telling you the whole story, non?

sorry, but I am sure you know that you can't come on MN with an emotive topic and only expect to hear what you want to hear.

Message withdrawn

Message withdrawn

thank you trolleydolly you answered my question.
I can't believe the ammount of people who say oh your ds is lying.
teachers are HUMAN they loose theiir temper. I tried in my op to just ask a simple question. but i think a lot of people just think oh a teen must be them.

But I don't think people ARE saying he's lying per se; just that there is probably more that he's not said - that doesn't make him a liar!

I've not read the whole thread though, so may be wrong.

YA now BU.

some people (with a lot of experience with a lot of teenagers) are saying that your son has gaps in his story.

or you have retold us his story with gaps in it.

It simply isn't acceptable whatever.

If you choose to go into secondary education (and I know i've not done so yet- ds3's dx puts a delay but have been studying towards for 3 eyars now) then you should surely be aware that you will dealing with 16 year olds, and that you may need to restrain your temper at times because they will be quite challenging?

RT the story of being bittena nd scratched at SN unit is irrelevant- the kids there can't help it. I getw rose at home from ds1 and that's just life when you're in an environment with a Sn kids with those tendencies.

Do any of those doubting teenagers and calling them all liars actually have any teens? I have 3 and they have friends round. Never caught them lying. Why would they?

But NMC, we all know teenagers are evil. Why, sometimes they even wear hoodies and hang around in popular places with their friends.

Is there a distinction to be made between swearing and swearing at someone? If a teacher drops a pile of books and says "shit" that's not quite the same as what seems to have happened here.

Of course all teenagers aren't liars, but it doesnt mean none of them are either.
I teach in a secondary school and never fail to be amazed at kids who do or say something and then swear blind they haven't literally seconds later! And that's when there are loads of witnesses there. Let me give you a typical example:
Teenager enters classroom and pushes another pupil hard on the way in. Teacher reprimands teenager. Teenager says 'I didnt do it'. Teacher explains (very patiently and with great restraint) that yes, you did do it. Teenager says 'Oh for fucks sake you're picking on me'. Teacher reprimands teenager for swearing. Teenager: 'I didnt swear'.... and so it goes on. Most teachers probably see this on a daily basis, or something similar.
If they do this when they have a class full of witnesses, the mind boggles as to what they tell their parents when they get home...

Needmorecoffee- you must know some spectacularly mature teenagers! Lucky you.

Met 2 of NMC's boys and they seemed really lovely kids actually, she is right to be rpoud of them. have seen things on ehre that 2shoes son has said as well and have to say, have always been impressed.

I don't think anyone would argue that all teens are angels- some clearlya re not. OTOH all teens deserve a chance to be judged for who they are, and not as part of some universally loathed age group

dare one say it? Lots of teeenagers have a highly 'fluid' relationship with the Truth.

This does not , however, make them bad, or wicked, or nasty. It makes them teenagers.

I teach any number of quite nice kids who can spin the most almighty whoppers. What amuses me is that they actually expect you to believe them when you have seen what happened with your own eyes!

In spite of this they are often really nice kids. We forget that they are not adults at our peril (and theirs)

Dippydeedoo, why would that have been any different had you had girls instead of boys? Are you saying it's more acceptable to bring up sexual stuff with boys???????

no trolleydolly not at all im perhaps rather protective of my childen -what i was saying is that if id had girls i wouldnt have been v happy as it is i know that boys generally know the meanings of such terms and i know my sons wouldnt have been embarassed as i do answer all their questions as truthfully as i can altho i understand y some of the girls were upset and perhaps some of the boys too altho none admitted it amongst their peers....all i was pointing out was that sometimes teachers do use innapropriate speech and its up to us as parents to interpret the situation some things are worth the fight others you just have to let go and move on.

if what i said offended u and gave the inpression any sexes feelings were more superior that was not my intention.

all the teenagers I know are home educated so my perception is a bit skewed. Never met any 'at school' ones.
maybe all the school rules and having adults tell you what to do encourages hostility and lying in some teens?
But like 2shoes, I have no problem taking what my teens say at face value because they always discuss their thoughts and motivations and tell me if I'm being unfair (soemtimes they go on and on and make me wish I'd gone in for coercive parenting!)
The teacher shouldn't have sworn. You start the job knowing what its going to be like and I imagine that 4 years trains you to hold in your temper?