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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think teachers shouldn't swear

117 replies

2shoes · 24/01/2008 16:56

ok ds is no angel and a normal nearly 16 year old. but i was a bit shocked that the teacher screeched at him and used the f word.
I wasn't there so can not judge the situation. but just thought that a teacher would have enough vocabulary to not have to resort to swearing.(not slagging teachers of here as i have only admiration for the ones on here)

OP posts:
skidoodle · 24/01/2008 22:38

well my main issue is that it isn't right (as in either fair or effective) to swear AT a pupil, although sometimes teachers lose their rag as they are often under a lot of pressure.

I don't really have an issue with swearing in normal speech as long as it's done well and I don't believe in there being "better" words or that people with bigger vocabularies don't swear. If a loved drama teacher swears then it has to be OK surely? Loved teachers are rare in life. Also a good drama teacher is someone steeped in language, so hopefully your son will learn how to swear in a more cultured way

My Dad used to smoke in class before they made him stop

TBH schools seem to be getting less permissive of teachers' behaviour as pupils seem increasingly to be allowed to do or say whatever the hell they like.

2shoes · 24/01/2008 22:42

love that "more cultured way"

I am not going to complain as I think all teachers are allowed to loose the plot everynow and again. i very much doubt that ds will be scarred for life
just realised how out of touch i am.

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ladette · 24/01/2008 22:47

2shoes, I'd let it go this once but if it continues to happen, i'd say something. If a teacher is using language like that habitually, then either they are acting inappropriately OR they are on the edge and need support, as many teachers I know are. Both eventualities need dealing with. Tho not sure if schools are set up to help support teachers who are at the end of their tether, so that might not help (and for the teachers out there, I was trying to be supportive, just incase what I wrote was ambiguous!)

TellusMater · 24/01/2008 22:49

I'm pretty astonished at all these sweary teachers BTW. I've come across very few.

The closest I've come is quickly substituting 'alec' for 'arse' after 'smart'. Fooling no-one of course.

2shoes · 24/01/2008 22:49

i lurked on a thread earlier where teachers were talking and it showed me the other side. ds only has a few more months and can do the course work in class as subject is 100 coursework. if he needs to do it after school he will ask to go with another teacher.
I love him but can't expect everyone to.

OP posts:
Heated · 24/01/2008 22:54

In an exasperated way I said today to a student, "You are being..." and paused to think of an appropriate phrase and the suggestions from the class came thick and fast!

"..moron", "...muppet", "...pita"

Told him to take his pick

2shoes · 24/01/2008 22:56

now be honest does that ever backfire?

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seeker · 24/01/2008 23:02

OK, would it be ever be acceptable for a nurse or a doctor ot he check out person in Tesco to use fuck to a child? Or to an adult, for that matter? I don't think so -and I don't think it is ever OK for a teacher to swar at a pupil, whatever the provocation.

fortyplus · 24/01/2008 23:10

I don't think so, either. In fact I would never swear at anyone else's child under any circumstances. I would never swear at anyone with whom I was conducting a business relationship.

I hate hearing swearing in the street - it sounds so ignorant.

But I do tell my very best friends to fuck off sometimes!

cory · 24/01/2008 23:12

I think the shop analogy is a good one. I have several relatives who work in various jobs dealing with customers (salesmen, shop assistant, receptionist) and I can assure that being sworn at is not unusual. Teachers aren't the only ones that have a stressful job. But if you are in one of those jobs and you swear back at the customer, you get sacked. Fact of life.

fortyplus · 24/01/2008 23:15

I think ignorant people just enjoy being rude. A friend's dd has a Saturday job loading the dishwasher in our local Sainsbury's cafe. A woman wasn't happy about the wait for food and said 'I don't know why they let people like you run the cafe - I bet you lot haven't got a GCSE between you'.

Friend's dd managed to resist the temptation to say that she alone has 12 - mostly A*.

slug · 25/01/2008 12:04

I've worked in teaching that age group for a long time and in my experience, the story told by your son just doesn't ring quite true. I have only ever once come across a teacher who screamed f off to a student and he was, to be perfectly honest, sectioned soon afterwards.

None of this may apply to your son. He may be a paragon, but in my experience, the default setting of 16 year old students is lying. Most of them do it as a reflex. They will deny everything, even if you have a room full of witnesses and cast iron evidence. I've seen them lie to their parents, lie to their teachers, lie to their friends. I've had students and in work copied from their mates, who copied it from the internet. I've watched them insist that the work is their own, even when confronted with the original and the website it was cut and pasted from. I've watched them do this in from of their parents and senior members of staff. I've seen them start formal complaints based on the blatant lies they told. I've even seen them appeal to the exam board when their cheating has been discovered. They seem unable to back down. What distresses me is the parents are often confused when they discover what thir children are like outside their influence. At home they may be loving, well behaved kids, but at school they seem to mutate into something unrecognizable.

Another thing to consider is that it can be dangerous for teachers to swear at students these days. I once faced down an agressive student, a normal daily experience, only to discover he had stabbed another student later that day. If I had sworn at him, chances are that he would have stabbed me instead. So many of them have really poor impulse control, it's not worth antagonising them.

So with apologies for the cynicism, here's a few points to consider:
Did the teacher actually swear?
If so, what did she actually say?
Did he just wander into her classroom and sit down as prearranged?
Had she told him not to earlier in the day?
Had he annoyed her earlier in the day?
Was there a class going on that he interrupted?
Was he asked to wait while the teacher finished her conversation (confidentiality issues may be involved)?
Did he just log onto Wikipedia?
Did he also have a game going?
Did he have other websites going?
Was he asked not to log on to that machine?
Was there a reason why it was inappropriate for him to be in the room at that time?
Had she asked him to leave and he ignored her?
Had she asked him to log off and he refused?
Was he alone?
Did he have one of his more dubious mates with him who was causing some trouble?
Did your son speak to her?
If so, what was his language like?

I suspect there is a kernel of truth in the story. He went to do some work and the teacher got mad at him. He may be telling the absolute truth. If he is then you absolutly have to start a formal complaint, the teacher's behaviour was beyond the pale.

I don't want to deamonise your son. But believe me, I bet you find what he is saying isn't the complete truth.

twinsetandpearls · 25/01/2008 17:59

Bridie3 am feeling better than I have in a while, am home for the weekend and hopefully may be able to return to work soon.

For what it is worth I don't think that the OP has the full story from her son. Teachers should not swear and very very rarely do, it happens at most once a year year here ( if that I have been in post for three years and heard of two occasions and for one of those a teacher was dismissed)at a very tough school with kids who regularly push you to the edge. I have never heard of it happening when a kid has not pushed the teacher to their limit or behaved in a very unreasonable way.

2shoes · 25/01/2008 18:32

slug no lesson was going on as school was finished. the pupils can stay behimd to do work. with ICT they have to let the teach know in advance which he did.
no reason for him to lie to me as he was not in trouble, if he wanted to come home he just had to come home, i don't think getting into a debate about a incident is really helpful. i only posted about it just to find out if it was normal for a teacher to swear.
but of cause as ds is nearly 16 he must be lying.

OP posts:
pankhurst · 25/01/2008 18:44

Teachers are very impressionable. I think they learn a lot of bad manners from the telly. including that programme TEACHERS, which was not good for their development.

16 year olds are the same. they need good role models. If they have good role models, they don't get into trouble, and they don't all lie/cheat/steal/knife -

(in the same way as not all teachers keep their mouths clean.)

I worked in one school - it was a nightmare - I hated all the screaming and punching, spitting, stealing, lying and swearing.

and that WAS the teachers.

juuule · 25/01/2008 18:49

Slug "but in my experience, the default setting of 16 year old students is lying."
What? All of them? Is that the position you approach someone from just on the basis that they are 16yo? How sad

clam · 25/01/2008 19:07

I think Slug makes a valid point. Yes, it may be that the teacher swore, which is unreasonable and unprofessional. BUT, it's highly unlikely that the student was sitting at the PC quietly minding his own business, for the teacher, unprovoked, to come out with the F word. Something must have prompted it, and to believe otherwise sounds, naive.

2shoes · 25/01/2008 19:10

so it is ok for the teacher to swear then?
that is all I was ever asking.
So if your dc's wind you up you swear at them and it is ok as you were provoked?

OP posts:
2shoes · 25/01/2008 19:11

(oh and i take it you know the teacher I am talking about)

OP posts:
juuule · 25/01/2008 19:31

I don't think they should swear, provoked or not.

clam · 25/01/2008 19:40

No, I'm not saying that (see my earlier post.... "no excuses for swearing, ever"). What I am saying, though, is that your DS might be missing part of the story, because it's unlikely to be quite as simple as he says. That's not to accuse him of lying, but just that he might need to elaborate a bit further.

skidoodle · 25/01/2008 19:47

@juule
"What? All of them? Is that the position you approach someone from just on the basis that they are 16yo? How sad"

How realistic.

Most teenagers lie to most of the adults in their lives. It's a perfectly normal part of forging their own identities.

Anyone with any cop on knows this and factors it in to how they deal with teenagers.

One of the reasons I and my siblings got through our teenage years relatively unscathed was because my father distrusted everything we told him. He was right almost every time.

"I'll be spending the night at Joan's"
"Grand, I'll just give her mother a ring to make sure that's OK"
"Yeah, she won't be there right now she's working"
"Well then you can come home by 11"

"I'm going bowling tonight with the girls"
"Great, I'll pick you up outside the bowling alley at 11"
"No, I'll walk home"
"I'll pick you up outside the bowling alley at 11"

I would be extra suspicious of a teenager who comes home to report a story where a teacher swore at him for no reason at all. Sounds like a young man trying to get his story in first in case there's a phone call from the school.

2shoes · 25/01/2008 19:56

gives up as banging her head against a brick wall hurts.

OP posts:
pankhurst · 25/01/2008 20:01

lie sometimes but NOT as a default setting - that's a bit of an overstatement.

Teachers shouldn't swear - same as Catholic nuns shouldn't snog (not even a tiny bit of lickety lick)

It's OUT of the job description.

pankhurst · 25/01/2008 20:07

i mean 16 year olds could lie sometimes but u can't say it's the default setting. it's silly to say it's a perfectly normal part of how they forge their identity. there's no Scientific evidence for that.

it's a way of hiding truth from people.

but their identity is formed from when they are conceived, so lying has nothing to do with that and can't be excusable on that basis...

surely...

I suppose you coudl argue that teacher swearing is a perfectly normal part of them forging THEIR own identity...

Maybe I will use that when I park on double yellows. "Yes, I know it's antisocial, but I'm in the process of FORGING MY IDENTITY, Officer"