Previous anger towards SIL and BIL is back!

[typingcake]

This is a bit of a novel but the back story is kind of needed.

Basically I feel very angry towards SIL and BIL and I'll be spending a weekend with them later in the year …

My husband and I have been together for over 17 years and married for 12 of those.

I always got on ok with my SIL, we don’t have anything in common but there has always been polite chit-chat during visits. Tho we don’t hang out together.

She has 2 older girls, high school and primary age. I’ve got a boy who is now 4. I’ve always felt that she and BIL have a kind of know-it-all / matter-of-fact way of telling you how it is… like if I say he’s teething badly, he’s been misbehaving at nursery , he’s waking at 5am every day then they’ll immediately cut you off and say ‘that’s what it’s like’, ‘it’s a phase’, ‘we went through that and this is what to do’ … that’s all fine and everything but there seems to be a lack of listening and empathy and more telling you how it was for them and how it should be for you. (not sure I’m explaining that properly).

Anyway, cut to the first lockdown in March 2020. My bow was 1 year and 10 months old. We immediately had aggressive behaviour from our boy, for about a week then he settled into the routine of being home. Nursery was closed for 17 weeks and when he started back (at just turned 2) the aggression came back. We then had 9 weeks of this behaviour. He would be ok then a ‘tantrum’ would start – mostly with no trigger we could identify. Except these didn’t feel like his usual tantrums. He would physically attack us – biting, hitting, scratching… if we put him down he would harm himself – banging his head, punching himself in the face, scratching himself… or he would throw anything and everything at us, and if we cleared everything away he would try to flip the table or go for the lamp. The meltdowns could go on for up to 4.5 hours and we really tried everything to diffuse them.

We were obviously upset and when this first started, within days we mentioned it to BIL and SIL and we were immediately met with ‘what did you expect?’, ‘they’re called tantrums’, ‘that’s what having a child is like’, ‘they don’t call it the terrible two’s for nothing!’, ‘you’re not the only people with children’… and when we tried to explain that his behaviour has changed overnight and could be linked to the change of routine that was dismissed – we were labelled as dramatic first time parents. When I brough up him harming himself I was told by SIL that ‘no, he isn’t’, when I described exactly what he was doing (as mentioned above) she said he didn’t know what he was doing and didn’t mean it… she then changed the subject abruptly and after that they stopped asking how he was and it was never mentioned till we next saw them in the garden for a socially distanced birthday meal. Where my boy was brilliantly behaved – which she pointed out – ‘he seems ok now, see, it’s just a phase’. This was after he was given a slice of chocolate cake the size of his head and a party bag! And the behaviour was still going on but again dismissed when I pointed this out.

I was very angry and upset by how they responded to it all.

Since then we don’t see much of SIL and BIL. Husband and I felt disappointed by their judgement and lack of support. I put myself into counselling a year ago to try and process it all and get my anger, mostly with SIL, out of my system as well as deal with the stress I’d been through and some other personal issues.

Going back to the terrible behaviour July 2020 – A few weeks into it, when there was no let up I called the health visitor who was brilliant. She got us Zoom behavioural workshops and did a home visit later in the year. And the nursery manager, who had the same behaviour from him, was brilliant and called us regularly to work with us to try and support him as best they could. We didn’t get to the bottom of his behaviour and the HV said it was too early to say but that it was likely the disruption to his routine and said he was displaying behaviour similar to children who had been through some sort of trauma. I did ask if she thought he might havd ADHD or something else and she said he was too young for that kind of assessment unless he had severe symptoms, which he didn’t. Nursery allowed us a place at their hub for the second lockdown and when he was back in his routine his behaviour was great and he thrived. He was a different boy – it was like night and day.

As his mum I do notice things: has only started jumping, doesn’t like to wear new jackets or shoes, has a fear of new things, diet has narrowed down, hums a lot, shouts one word repeatedly, still hits his hear or eye when he’s excited, has some pronunciation trouble and a bunch of other stuff. Then recently nursery had weeks of bad behaviour (which we think was due to about 15 3 year olds moving up to his room and some of his friends going to school), he was hitting and throwing and having meltdowns for up to 1.5 hours where they had to remove him from the room and take him into the office. The manager had me in for a meeting and while it was upsetting she was brilliant, she said she wanted to observe him for 4 weeks as she thought he could have an ASN or difficulty processing his emotions. During the observation they put different methods into place to support him and he responded really well and he’s not been removed from the room since the observation period which was July. The manager said she’s pleased with his progress and doesn’t feel the need to take it further.

But I decided to call the health visitor myself just for piece of mind and if there is something going on my husband and I just want to be able to support him as best we can, ahead of him going to school next year. When I got the call back we had a recap on the previous behaviourla stuff and how he’s been brilliant since then but how he had been having difficulty recently. Then I read her some of the things from the list above and more and she said there were some things that stood out and could indicate autism. She asked what our expectations were and I said we just wanted him to thrive and if we could get to the bottom of it all and could put a name to it then we could support him, as I said above. And she agreed.. So she’s coming out in October for a home visit and will also speak to nursery. She thinks he will likely go on the very long waiting list for an autism assessment (sorry I don’t know the correct terms or name for it).

So… that what’s been going on and this is where we are at. Husband and I decided not to tell any of our family (both sides) what’s going on till we know a bit more as we just don’t want the judgement. We’d rather be in a position to say ‘our boy has this, this is how we support him, this is how you can support him when he’s at your place’.

Now the reason for my post: since nursery said he may be ASN and HV now saying it could be autism… I feel incredibly angry towards BIL and SIL. I know that all happened 2 years ago and I thought I’d gotten over it… but it makes me extremely cross when I think about what they said and how shit husband and I were made to feel… how they just brushed it all off when all along my boy may be autistic and that’s why he reacted how he did. How we were not listened to and supported in any way.

Coming up we have a family weekend away to celebrate a big family anniversary and we’ll be staying in a big barn with them there… as we don’t see them often they will likely see some of his behaviour over the 2 night stay. They may point it out. They will likely think we’re too lenient with him and not strict enough… they may just think he’s spoilt or a bad child? This is just me getting ahead of myself I know… but I can’t help thinking about it ansd expecting the worst. They always just tell us 'how it is' and pass judgement and I'm not really feeling prepared for that so I'm apprehensive about the whole thing.

So here is my AIBU bit…

AIBU to have all this anger towards them?

And any advice on how to let it go / deal with it better / how to be in their presence?

I think people have been too hard on you here. The anger is how dismissive and patronising they’ve been when you were clearly noticing valid concerns. I think if you are neurodivergent things can feel more focused. They’ve never acknowledged not being correct and given your background difficulties growing up it’s easy to see why you feel so angry. Also ND people often feel things very strongly which neurotypical people feel is an overreaction. If you feel something intensely it’s how it is there’s no right or wrong about it. Working towards people that are lacking insight and empathy having less impact on how you feel would be good for you but is easier said than done. You sound a lovely mum by the way. Also your detailed explanation was to give context so people seeming to think this is a valid reason to suggest you don’t have enough going on in your life is nonsensical.

This is good advice.

Rude people cut off or talk over others, don't listen when others speak, or give their overbearing unasked for pronouncements about stuff they don't know anything about or isn't their business.

I have a personal loathing for those who describe themselves as "direct" or "tell it like it is".

That for me is code for someone who is invariably "ignorant, rude and uncouth" whom I wouldn't want to be around, and cause offence and hurt the feelings of others.

They are often VERY thin skinned when people push back!

You are unfortunate that they are like this.

However, all you can do is manage how you deal with them as suggested above and really limit the time you spend in their company.

Wishing you well.

Actually I’ve a different take. And that’s the anger stems from resentment. The op has reached out to them, asks to meet up, to bubble with them and she takes the rejections hard. For me I think she desperately wanted to be the sils close friend and the rejection has stung and that’s why it’s her she’s angry at and that’s why it’s the sil this is focused on. The ops advances have been quietly rebuffed and she’s furious.

I have anger towards certain people, which I have tried to drop, in completely different circumstances. I find the trouble with anger is that although you think you have dropped it, it keeps reappearing. You have to keep dealing with it, they are the people they are, they like who they are, and are not going to change their personalities, or their minds,and suddenly be helpful. You know you are doing the right things with your child, be confident in the advice you are getting from experts, and ignore any criticism, perceived or spoken.

Hi op sounds like you were under a huge amount of pressure during lockdown and just wanted support and reassurance. It's a tough process getting any kind of diagnosis for your child. There's a lot of dwelling in the past, wondering what you could do differently, anger, regret, guilt and resentment. I can definitely relate I was telling people my child had autism for months and months and nobody would take me seriously said it was a phase, he would grow out of it, I was paranoid/obsessed but in their own way they were actually trying to reassure me. Keep working on your own feelings and keep knocking on doors to get the assessment for your child. If you can afford it I'd suggest going private. Wishing you all the best.

If I've read your op correctly then the HV originally said much the same thing as your ILS. The anger you feel for them must stem from something else.

Your SIL and BIL have been completely lacking in empathy. This makes them sound like dismissive know-it-alls. Not nice at all.

You and your DH sound the exact opposite….compassionate, understanding, thoughtful and kind.
i know who I and others would choose to be friends with. Comfort yourself with that fact as well as the fact that you and your DH have done right by your child, in a timely way to ensure the optimum support.
And at the same time, lower your expectations of them. You aren’t interested in their opinion now anyway as they have have minimised and ignored your feelings at a time when you were right to be concerned. Your own instincts were correct. Rely on those instincts in future …they are the only ones that count.
So at the family get together, remain polite in greeting them of course, but no need to seek them out to your share feelings or your family information if you don’t want to. Instead, stay close to your DS and confidently ensure he has your support throughout. If you find it to be an ordeal, you aren’t obliged to stay longer than you are all happy to.

This is crazy. Why do you keep wanting to talk to them about it when you clearly don't like their response?

All sounds like normal tantrums to me.

Im just popping back here to ask you what it is you want from me?
Why have you continued to question me and now announce that you think I resent them?
Is it because you relate to the kind of people that my BIL and SIL are and you somehow feel offended that I would seek advice on how to deal with people like them/you?
I do not take rejections hard. I face rejections in my professional life often.
I have never wanted to be close friends with SIL.
I have many close friends and I have 2 loving sisters.
Are you ok? You seem a bit off put.

I sympathise. I used to over defend my songs behaviour. Now he's 16, if anybody tried to suggest he is the way he is because of my poor parenting, id just think less well of them. It's not all about what they think of you. It's also what you think of other people. People can be ignorant, intolerant, impatient smug, the list goes on! Store that observation and just know that you have done yr best!

My mother also shamed me in to capitulation to her demands so I too feel ashamed when the tiniest bit of criticism is thrown my way. I remember my flatmate in my 20s, it was a revelation to me. Criticism was water off a duck's back to her because her parents loved and supported her and saw everything she did or said through a quick to understand lens. She shrugged over criticisms that would have derailed me!
I get that you still want to go to the getogether, you just want to be "armed"

I have three autistic children OP.

The first is only being diagnosed and still on a huge waiting list going into her teens as it is so subtle in how she presents. The younger two have been diagnosed already- there is a large age gap between them and their older sibling. My middle child is very intelligent (numbers/ letters) but with little speech and no real understanding of things and my youngest is completely non-verbal.

The toddler years for all 3 of them are/ were the worst of my life. You are constantly either dismissed, belittled or ‘gaslighted’ by health professionals and family until they turn around 3.5- then they suddenly start accepting what you are saying. The subtle insinuation and constant drip is that you must be a crap parent in some way- I remember going to a course for the eldest (I had to agree to take part in this before she got referred for her hearing for her lack of speech (and what we now realise was most likely also autism too)- in which they told us to make eye contact with our children and get down on their level to speak to them. All delivered in the type of voice that suggested we might struggle to comprehend anything too difficult. This was week 1 of a four week course on a Wednesday afternoon- obviously the concept that parents might work was lost on them. It turned out her hearing was working at around 10%. In fairness though the NHS seem to have dropped this horrendous approach a decade later.

Having said this- I think your anger is misplaced here. I get the resentment, I really do. But in the case of family they were no doubt trying to ease your worries. So they are coming from a place of good intentions- even though it is incredibly unhelpful to you. My children’s’ father is also in denial and I had him screaming in my face that I was ‘looking for things wrong with them’- it won’t surprise you to know we are now split up.

My anger is placed the most though on the pediatrician for my middle child who (on a phone call- didn’t bother to meet my child) told me Einstein didn’t speak til he was 3, so I had nothing to worry about.

So I get the anger- I really do. But I would tell them now he has been referred for autism. It might make them think. Sadly though it takes many to the point they are diagnosed for them to really accept it.

If anyone is reading this who has family asking if their child might be showing signs of autism etc and you think they do… please urge them to visit their GP. Please don’t fob them off thinking it will make them feel better- if they have got to that point to ask someone then they’ve given it a lot of thought. There’s nothing wrong with being autistic- and the sooner children receive support the better.

Wishing you all the best OP.

YABVU to feel so angry toward BIL and SIL. They were trying to help you relax. Not judging you. That is your own very strange take on their comments.

They are not experts on child development and if you relied on them for expert advice and now feel they failed you, that's your own fault. From your description of what went on, the conversations were casual and inconsequential. How you felt afterwards was up to you to manage.

The vast, vast majority of parents of older children have come through baby and toddler stages and will tell you not to sweat the small stuff, and there's a really wide range of what constitutes small stuff.

Hope you get to the bottom of things with DS. If there is a diagnosis, don't wave it in SIL and BIL's faces while saying Told You.

You need to get to the bottom of your problem with 'judgement' too.

Most of what you've said and questioned has been answered in my responses. Especially your last sentence. I understand my problem with judgement and I know where it stems from. And you may say that's a good reason for me to let it go. I thought I had, but I hadn't so I came here for reason and I got plenty of it! And yes I may have more of an issue with the way in which they and I interact with me in general and that's where my anger comes from and that's something I now have to deal with.

I get what you're all saying. So anyone new to this thread… it now feels like a pile on.

Thank you to those of you who took the time to tell me your experience. Thank you to those of you who told me IABU or IABVU, I will try to understand myself better and not misplace my anger or pass blame. Thank you tho those of you who said kind things to me and told me ways I can try to cope or move on or arm myself with responses that would only come to me afterwards… I appreciate it.

@billy1966

Rude people cut off or talk over others, don't listen when others speak… I have a personal loathing for those who describe themselves as "direct" or "tell it like it is". That for me is code for someone who is invariably "ignorant, rude and uncouth" whom I wouldn't want to be around, and cause offence and hurt the feelings of others.

@MacarenaMacarena

Nice people would not come out with such crass answers.

So in your worlds, NT adults = Nice ND adults = BAD

You call a person rude and ignorant but do you not realise that being direct without adding extra fluff and cutting in when others are talking are pretty common ASP traits?

Would you be so judgmental and unkind if the person had an obvious physical disability? Presumably not, yet here you are acting like mean girls to anyone not exactly like you.

Honestly, I’m so fed up with the horrible name calling that goes on in this place when it’s clear to me that many of you have no patience for us ND adults. 😢

Apologies for contributing to a pile on - my phone doesn't always load all the pages of a multi page thread and I see I missed a good few of your comments.

Are you and DH able to afford a private assessment? Wait times are long otherwise, and meanwhile your DS is more dependent than he should be on a teacher having time and expertise and a small class to deal with.

@mathanxiety no it's ok, I'm feeling a bit sensitive. It's all useful.

Someone else mentioned a private assessment and I think I'll ask the HV what the NHS wait time is like and ask her about going private. I've no idea what these things cost so hard to know what we can afford but yes, we could potentially cover the costs. Thank you

I will admit that I haven't read all the posts. I got to this comment by the OP in one of her earlier posts and I felt I had to reply.
You wrote @typingcake " Whenever I'm at a family thing I feel like I can't be myself and I just have to nod along and pair back who I am, it's draining."

That sounds so like masking.
This is what I mean by masking: www.healthline.com/health/autism/autism-masking

I had only heard of the term when I watched the programme on the telly with Paddy McGuinness and his wife and family on autism. I found it absolutely enlightening and eye-opening.

Could this be what you're doing in social situations?

I never mentioned ND.

Do ND people generally announce themselves as "direct" and "I like to tell it like it is"? before they express their forthright views?

That is not MY experience.

The people I have heard saying these things are generally very bombastic people who call others "sensitive" when their rude remarks are challenged, or adopt a victim like mentality with tantrums at not being allowed to "express themselves".

You are associating these traits and bahaviours with ND.

I mostly certainly am not.

I don't recall reading that the OP's in laws are ND?

Did I miss that?

Please quote where she pointed that out?

If I missed a bit where OP said that SIL and BIL are ND then I do apologise - the impression i got (and I thought I'd read all of it) was that the OP felt consistently shut down by them, and this upset her. With the knowledge and understanding that OP has of them, I'm sure she would have avoided discussing any subject that might distress them or their response distress her should she be aware of any ND. Sometimes people can just be a bit rude and insensitive, and not have ND reasons.

"SIL will also cut me off if I'm talking about a current issue or a personal issue (difficulty with driving again after many years) and get her point out then change the subject. Leaving me feeling frustrated. I'm not expecting full attention on me, I don't like being in the spotlight anyway but I just find her manners to be rude. She'll also openly tell me if she doesn't like something I've made for lunch and make comment on how to improve my home and garden – that's just her I know. But that's not me and I'd never do that."

@BatteryPoweredMammy this is the type of behaviour that I am referring to.

IMO behaviour that the OP has every right to avoid if she wishes.

@LookItsMeAgain Could I be masking in social situations?

No I don't think so.
I did admit that I might well be autistic so I'm not trying to backtrack.

I'm very confident in my job. I'd rather pick up the phone or do a zoom that email a client to go over something. I can speak clearly and confidently in a meeting and get my point across. I take criticism at work well. What I do for a job allows for stages where I openly ask for feedback to better improve the end result.

In a group of friends I don't hold back. I can be who I am as I feel comfortable.
In a new group situation I do sometimes feel self conscious but I don't think (reading through the list on the url you shared) that I display many of those characteristics.

In the situation with my inlaws I feel like over many years I've come to experience and now expect to be talked over or have my views openly dismissed. I don't like it. So I choose not to put myself in that position by doing the polite chit-chat thing, by being a bit quieter and not starting conversations or pitching in with my views. That's the tiring bit. I have this feeling that they don't think I'm a great match for my husband. But to be honest he gets shitty behaviour from them too.

I do think you're being more than a tad over sensitive here - it's generally true that first time parents can be a bit dramatic, we all go through it but it is really common for people with older kids or more kids to brush away the worries of newer parents. A bit dickish? Yes and no, and delivery is definitely key here, but I don't think it's anywhere near enough of an issue to cause resentment or anger to build in the way you describe.

That said, I do know how it feels to have your child queried for autism and for it to come from you. It's really jarring and worrying and your DS is still so young that the future must feel more than a bit uncertain right now. It's a ard thing to go through, especially if you're keeping it to yourself. Have you told any friends? I think you'll find talking about it really helpful. Maybe join a SM group for parents going through the same thing?

If you feel that you would like a diagnosis sooner then there is the option to pay for a private assessment. We are currently going through this process, takes a couple of months.

I do feel for you, OP. Yes, YABU but it's just because you're human and having a difficlut time.x.

I agree with this.
I can't see anything wrong in sil's behaviour.

On reading the early parts of your post though I did immediately think your ds was most likely neurodiverse ( before I got to the part where it is being investigated).
But I have been shot down on other threads if I suggest it.

Exactly that! That is all very typical ND behaviour just like me.

I have a million thoughts a minute in my head and I can switch discussing subjects in an instant when a different thought has taken over. I find it hard to focus for any length of time on one subject and equally can easily feel overwhelmed by other people in a group. If someone gives me something I don’t like, I’ll tell them straight away. I’m not trying to be rude but it’s my first response and it’s difficult to not say out loud what’s in my head.

Must admit, life is so much easier for me now I can converse by text. I write out how I would speak it, so fairly blunt and straight to the point. But then I can go back and add in a few social niceties such as ‘how are you?’ at the start of the text and maybe try to refer back to a previous conversation topic.

I think both the OP and her SIL are both displaying different ND traits. The OP with her negativity and obsessing over details.

I do agree that there are also people who say things like “I tell it like it is” who are not ND but you can’t always be certain so surely it’s best to give them the benefit of the doubt?

Thing is, you don’t have to like everyone, but equally, don’t assume that because someone doesn’t do or say the things that you would it means that they’re not nice people. Lots of us ND folk struggle with friendships because other people assume our bluntness is because we don’t care when the reality is that our brain doesn’t work in the same way. Unless we’ve done something that is obviously unkind, then we’re probably trying our best to interact with you the only way we know how.

Please don’t automatically judge us unkindly because we don’t react as you might do to a situation. That thing you call ‘Empathy’ works differently in my brain. I do genuinely care but often say the wrong thing. I remember years ago a colleague telling me she was pregnant and my response was ‘do you want to be?’ I know now that I should have simply replied with ‘Congratulations’, but we were both young and I’d have been horrified to be pregnant so I replied based on my own perception of the situation.

Now I’m older, I’m definitely better at stopping myself blurting things out as often but I still make mistakes. Luckily my DH isn’t like me but he does understand and is very supportive and helpful.