To think sis should kick her DD out?

[Calligraph]

NC as may be outing.
My niece, let’s call her Amy, is 20 and never had a job. She left school with no GCSEs because she missed a lot of school due to mental health issues.
She stayed in a hospital for a few months because she was suicidal.
My sis, with the rising costs and being a single parent, can no longer afford to pay all the bills, food, clothes etc for herself, Amy and her younger son who’s still at school.
Amy, for the past 4 years has refused to get a job or sign on and she says my sis should pay for everything as she’s the parents and she didn’t ask to be born.
If sis gets too pushy, Amy threatens suicide and gets verbally abusive. She does nothing all day, won’t clean, tidy etc as she says her mental health is too bad, she’s too depressed etc…
This is making my sis really depressed and at the end of her tether, after all bills, food and fuel have been paid for, my sis has £4 a week for anything else. Amy still demands takeaways and when sis refuses, Amy gets sulky and starts being spiteful to her brother, gets told off and skulks off to her room.
AIBU to think my sis should kick her out and let her go to council for help? I know sis won’t do that though bc it’s her daughter.
Amy and my sis fight constantly and my sis has had enough and doesn’t know what to do any more.
Amy had counselling but refused to talk even after 10 sessions, she just sat there staring, so counsellor said she couldn’t help her.
GP can’t help, Amy is on antidepressants but they don’t seem to have helped in any way.
My sis complains to me but I don’t know what to suggest any more.
Has anyone ever had this problem and if so, what did you do?

She seems very manipulative, uses threats to get what she wants and sit around. We have a family member limke this and what everyone forgets is the impact on others mental health. The young person I know uses threats a lot. I've seen that impact on others first hand, we are all a little scared of her. She needs help, I think kicking her out is extreme but then on some level I agree this is the best way

Aconitum 😅

Kick her lazy, abusive arse out of there.
Why should OP or OP DS have to live with this?

Are social services involved? Amy is an adult who apparently can’t function independently in any way. Her mother is not legally responsible for her.

Is Amy neurotypical, by the way? She sounds very like the daughter of someone I know who has made her parents’ life hell, and is currently sectioned. She does have some mental health problems, but her behaviour is actually much more about her autism combined with personality disorder.

I really feel for your sister, just because someone may have genuine mental health issues doesn't mean they can't also use those issues to purposefully manipulate others. It sounds like this is what Amy is doing.

I agree about kicking her out however like Amy saying how your sister can't carry her to the GP, unless your sister physically pushes her out of the door there's not much she can do, Amy will hardly walk out voluntarily.

Practically, your sister could reach out to charities like Mind or Action for Carers to access support and advice. If Amy has ever had a diagnosis then your sister could also apply for things like UC, disability benefit and PIP on her behalf as a representative. This may involve a home visit for an assessment and if they see what she is like at this visit it could support the application, eg if they witness behaviours that haven't been reported to the GP.

I do worry as you mentioned a younger brother, how old is he and is he a victim of abuse by his sister? Could it be approached from this angle, ie a social worker? Though your sister might worry about him being taken away but it's important to consider how to support him as well. Good luck

Are you this ableist in real life or did you save it up especially for the Internet?

People can have mh issues and also be manipulative etc
We can't excuse poor behaviour all the time on MH
Also no one can be abusive to another and use MH as an excuse that its ok as it just simply isn't
Not sure throwing her out is the answer either but some ultimatums on seeing a dr or being assessed, no take aways , no treats etc as no one can help unless they can figure what is wrong
I suffer from MH and it can affect your behaviour that I accept but also I had to accept responsibility when my behaviour impacted others even If i couldn't always help it

We have a similar type of person (nearly same age) in our greater family unit, and she was brought up in a good family environment with boundaries and rules in place, mum could be a bit of a pushover at times, but not Dad, but mum still had standards and rules she expected participation with.

as that family unit has aged, each suicide attempt or threat has aged the person’s parents. It grinds them down and they feel hopelessness. The now adult person sees a specialist and has been hospitalised over the years, any time she does hold a job down it’s over within a blink and it’s the employers fault. She too is back at home and spends most of her time on the internet. Her family has always had a strong internet presence, so whether that is part of the trouble I’m not sure.. we all grope for answers in an attempt to find understanding and resolve.

from an outsiders point of view, I too think she should have got a smacked bottom at the beginning and told to get on with it and others have thought so but she would make allegations against family members and the family would withdraw from that person. In one case it was the girl’s much loved grandmother who tried to put a stop to some of the carry on and it was years before she ever saw her again…

the specialist she is signed up to says it’s a complex case and he doesn’t know of anything like it. He is the country’s leading specialist (where they live) and basically sees her if they can pick when it’s leading up to self harm as there is a bit of a pattern.

I don’t know what the answer is, but I do know in our case the person grew up in a decent family environment.

To add I also had an amazing loving childhood but didn't stop my MH hitting an all time low out if the blue a couple years ago

Look up EUPD.
Whilst it often goes hand in hand with depression, it can sometimes also result in the behaviours that Amy is displaying.
I am in no way saying everyone with EUPD acts this way, but I have seen it regularly if it isn't managed well or without trigger plans in pla

Press send too soon - "in place" that last bit should read.

if you think Amy was able to stay in hospital for a few month because of her mental health but doesn’t have mental health issues you would be very mistaken. People who are in dire need of this service are forced to stay in community care as there are not enough places. So she must have very serious mental health issues.

Where is her Dad in all of this?
Could she stay with him for a bit?

I know a family in almost exactly this situation. The young adult in that situation has pretty serious mental health issues and needs support, not to be kicked out on her arse. It's obvious that she's not happy, she's not out living the high life and expecting her mum to fund it. Sometimes people who are struggling with issues don't act rationally, and aren't able to help themselves, no matter how obvious or easily accessed that help is to someone who isn't in that situation.

This thread is predictably depressing.

Where is the Dad in all this? I know you said he left but does he have any involvement? Does he know how bad things are?

Amy must know in some level that her life is utterly shit and surely does not want to live like this with no job or skills to make her own life and money for nice things, phone, socialising? Does she have friends or leave the house? Has she had problems with social interaction?

Did she do well educationally until the MH issues started?

Where does your sister think the MH issues stem from? When did they start? What was Amy like when younger? Did she develop normally up until teenage years or were there other concerns? Autism is worth looking into for girls (make sure it's for girls as boys present differently) in case anything leaps out but obviously Amy would need to agree to an assessment.

Obviously so difficult for your sister but I can understand why she won't kick her out. The girl is very vulnerable even if the suicide threats are manipulation. She's obviously scared of something but can't express it.

Can your sister see her GP and explain the situation. Go for herself but explain the pressure she's under with her DD and see if the GP can give advice on that too.

Maybe GP can give advice on a referral to the crisis team at CAHMS even without DD's agreement if she explains the constant suicide threats?

Don't agree it fits with BPD tbh. I have it as do several of my friends and while it varies a lot from person to person I don't think work refusal is usually a part of it. Also she's just showing anger rather than attachment/abandonment issues so far as I can see, which is the sympt

People repeatedly threaten suicde jusgt to get their own way thats manipulative

when i couldnt cope at 18 i went to see a doctor and the job centre to get income support because even i knew i had to provide in some sort of way when i lived at home

Just to agree with PPs that the DD would certainly not have spent time in a MH facility if she wasn't severely affected. Sis needs to go to GP and explain all this and ask to be directed for help, Does she have paperwork from when she was last admitted? Can she ring whoever dealt with the DD then and ask for advice as well?

if meds havent worked nor councelling why was she discharged from hospital

You can have mental health challenges and be a dick. Your sister needs to deliver an ultimatum- either Amy starts contributing to the household with finances and chores or she leaves. Your sister needs to mean it, for her other child’s sake.

Probably because she manipulated people into allowing her home or she was a less serious case than others.

I feel for your sister she’s entitled to a life as well and this must be really draining.

I think she’s at the end of her teacher with the daughter and I don’t blame her.

Id go and print forms for council accommodation or shared accommodation and tell her - not ask - but tell her she’s going to visit these places and get her life on track.

Could your sister visit the GP to discuss her own health and that of her daughter. Whilst there speak with the doctor about a home visit? GP practices will do them if a person is unable to go to the surgery sometimes. If there is a chance that her daughter's refusal is due to her mental health preventing her from attending the practice they may be willing to come out to her.

Should your sister put her mentally ill child out on the streets or at best push her into a hostel?

No.

No, she should just tolerate threats of violence and damage to personal property, as well as allow her DS to be affected just to keep the peace!

This young woman needs to go elsewhere and let’s see where her threats of violence and abuse get her then.

Should your sister put her mentally ill child out on the streets or at best push her into a hostel?
No.

Her sister cannot afford to keep an adult who does not work or claim benefits. What's your solution?