To think sis should kick her DD out?

[Calligraph]

NC as may be outing.
My niece, let’s call her Amy, is 20 and never had a job. She left school with no GCSEs because she missed a lot of school due to mental health issues.
She stayed in a hospital for a few months because she was suicidal.
My sis, with the rising costs and being a single parent, can no longer afford to pay all the bills, food, clothes etc for herself, Amy and her younger son who’s still at school.
Amy, for the past 4 years has refused to get a job or sign on and she says my sis should pay for everything as she’s the parents and she didn’t ask to be born.
If sis gets too pushy, Amy threatens suicide and gets verbally abusive. She does nothing all day, won’t clean, tidy etc as she says her mental health is too bad, she’s too depressed etc…
This is making my sis really depressed and at the end of her tether, after all bills, food and fuel have been paid for, my sis has £4 a week for anything else. Amy still demands takeaways and when sis refuses, Amy gets sulky and starts being spiteful to her brother, gets told off and skulks off to her room.
AIBU to think my sis should kick her out and let her go to council for help? I know sis won’t do that though bc it’s her daughter.
Amy and my sis fight constantly and my sis has had enough and doesn’t know what to do any more.
Amy had counselling but refused to talk even after 10 sessions, she just sat there staring, so counsellor said she couldn’t help her.
GP can’t help, Amy is on antidepressants but they don’t seem to have helped in any way.
My sis complains to me but I don’t know what to suggest any more.
Has anyone ever had this problem and if so, what did you do?

She was assessed in hospital as she said she’d swallowed pills but actually hadn’t, she just wanted to upset / scare her mum.
I took them to the hospital straight away and Dr said she wasn’t actually suicidal, just manipulative. Words were ‘Amy clearly has lied about taking pills for attention and has manipulated you into bringing her to the hospital for no medical reason.

Your sister has two children and the son’s life is being ruined by Amy and your sister enabling her and tolerating her abuse of them both. She owes it to her son to give him a better life than he’s getting at the moment.

@Calligraph I don't think parents do bring up children the same. We are different with our first than with our second, also sex can play a part - daughters can be triggering for some women, in a way boys can be triggering for some men. Maybe your sis has tried to compensate because Amy dad hasn't been around.. It will be a whole myriad of things all playing out. I'm not excusing poor behaviour at all, or blaming your sister. It sounds so tough. But your sister can't change anyone but herself - so what support does she need to give her the confidence to make changes? That's why I suggested early help

Who is paying for Amy's lifestyle eg mobile phone, clothes, make up/toiletries, days/nights out? Because if it were me, I would probably be putting a stop to it.

Hi OP, that sounds like such a difficult situation. Would your niece be eligible for PIP? My understanding is that it applies to mental health conditions as well as physical illnesses, and it could be helpful.

Amy didn’t ask to be born, and your sister didn’t ask to become a victim of abuse, which she now is at the hands of her daughter.

your sister may not be able to carry her to the job centre, but she can put a lock on food cupboards and state that it’s contents are for paying adults and minors only.

it may sound harsh but you can’t help someone who refuses to help themselves. Bending over backwards trying to encourage them to go to x,y,z when they are actively against it is emotionally draining and keeps them in control of you.

your sister needs to make it clear to Amy that she WANTS to help her, but parental responsibility ends at 18 so there is nothing that says she HAS to

Has Oppositional Defiance Disorder been considered at all?

There is assisted living for young people with mental health issues. Perhaps something to look into?

Yes! And she sounds abusive as well, but I guess everyone else should suck it up because she has mh issues.

What if your sister was to accompany her to a GP appointment to discuss her antidepressants and then it could be mentioned about the difficulties she’s having and how she’s unable to work?

She sounds like a manipulative entitled foolish child. Your sister should give her an ultimatum get a job /sign on /seek help in 2 weeks or go and follow throughou. She'll soon sort herself out.

She doesn’t have anything as there is no money spare to give.

I agree, I think. This is just as likely as her having genuine MH problems that stop her being able to tidy up but still leave her able to argue with and manipulate her mother.

amy won’t go. My sis can’t carry her to the car and force her. She won’t help herself.

Sounds like she is using MH as an excuse to get her own way.

I think your sis should give her a 2 month ultimatum. Get a job and move out by then or be kicked out come what may.

It will be make it break for Amy, but this situation cannot continue as it is for anyone's sake, Amy's included.

Amy uses her mental health to control, manipulate and emotionally abuse.

Of course she won't help herself, because if she does it means she would be in a good frame of mind and she wouldnt be able to use her mental health as a weapon agaisnt her Mum and use it as an excuse to not get a job.

I wouldn't say the answer is to kick her out but what i probably would do is stop buying her her toiletries, clothes, shoes etc. I would be telling her that in order for her to get these things she needs money whether that be through getting herself help for her mental health and eventually getting into employment or getting herself signed up for some benefits (who will also make her look for a job)

OP I haven't RTFT but I think that how your sister parents her children is her business.
So it's a MYOB from me.

Does Amy get pip? UC?

Does your sister get UC?

These are options to start at.

But other than that I'd say sister needs to stand firm that she gets Amy can't work etc as her MH is severe but if she wants to remain at home she must sort the financial side out.

Might be an out there opinion but this isn't mental health. This is a spoilt abusive person who is taking this piss out of their mother. The real fact of it is, you can't resolve this issue. If the mother or child won't do anything to change the situation then it's on them. Tell her mother you can't be around this anymore and let them get on with it. As far as I'm concerned it's not your problem to worry about.

She refuses to attend job centre and says her mum can’t carry her there so and I quote ‘’you will have to get a second job and keep me’’

She's clearly manipulative and that needs to stop.

If she can't work - fair enough.

But she claims UC and PIP

This would be a horrendously unprofessional thing for a doctor to say.

You sound determined to think that Amy is just a bad kid who should be kicked out, which is pretty sad. I suppose if wonder why you think she is acting like this if it isn't to do with a mental health difficulty?

It would help inform your opinion if you did read the whole thread or at least the OP’s posts.

She may well have a serious mental health condition, not all conditions present in the same way, not cause the same behaviours

From what you have said this has been going on
since she was a young teen - what was done, right at the start ? When school started to missed, and her behaviour changed ?

Her current behaviour is not acceptable, however, it’s not coming from nowhere .. it’s a behaviour that has been enabled (and in some ways encouraged) by your sister.

She’s not been able or allowed to mature as other people of the same age have, and so you can’t expect her to have the same decision making abilities.

”throwing her out” or threatening to do so will have no effect, because it won’t happen.

This young person needs to recognise that can achieve more in life, and be supported to get there. The dynamic in the household is clearly not one that is promoting independence.

What does she want ?

Sis can speak to the GP, on her own , about Amy.
The GP won't discuss Amy with Sis but can listen and consider what to do.

She sounds like she’s existing and not living. She should be in her prime, carefree, working or studying or travelling. She seems to have gotten into a cycle of blaming everything on her past MH issues and is manipulating each situation to suit her.
She needs to shape up or ship out. Not sure how much your dsis has enabled this behaviour and what action she has taken in the past?
Sitting on her arse and making excuses for her behaviour are not going to wash in the real world, which is where she needs to be.