Entitled attitude: grandparents must provide childcare

[Hope54321]

I’m seeing a lot more of this attitude quite recently. Why do people have children if they can’t look after them or pay for their childcare? Why is it that grandparents are expected to do the childcare so the parents can work? I think it’s acceptable if the grandparents are offering to help out, but to feel like grandparents should be obliged to offer childcare is simply taking the biscuit.

Such the saddest and nasty thread.

I'm 58.

I'd dearly love to be near my mum but I'm over two hundred miles away. She's struggling. I'm an only child.

I moved due to company relocation and an increase in salary. Maybe I should have stayed and got a shit job so that I could be near my mum.
I didn't but she was my age at the time.

I met my husband and had children. No grandparent childcare. I stayed at home then got a term time job.

My children grew up . One is over two hundred miles away and is happy and settled with a lovely partner.
The other is over 70 miles away and is also happily settled with her lovely partner.

How the hell can we help either my frail mum or either of our children?

There is nowhere to live that's equidistant that could allow any help to any of them.

This thread has made me feel like a dreadful parent and an appalling child.

Nothing regular. They offer to have them from time to time because they want to. We don't rely on them.

So they’ve offered, but you won’t be offering for your own grandkids?

I don't think grandparents are obliged to help out but in our case I don't have any family and dh Mum just sits by on her wealth watching us suffer looking after dc alone. I'm surprised but never expected much. And it's very very sad when I go to things at school and watch all the other gp loving every minute of seeing their dc and my dc not having that. If I could go back I'd have married into a family that did have an interest in their own family tbh.

Dh mum makes all sorts of excuses why she can only come once a year. We really struggle to hold together as two working parents but as pp have said and I agree no obligation to help I suppose. But it is a shame. My dd miss out on having nice gp too either way I think those that do care are a great asset to family life today.

You can't offer regular childcare, but maybe you could offer a 1 week holiday once a year for the grandchildren and/or for your parents. So they come to you and you take them out, etc. Or you book a holiday cottage and have them there for a holiday.

That is not true at all.
My 83 year old mother needed to work despite my Dad having a decent job and we were far from rich.
You may have come from a privileged background but don't make assumptions about everyone else.

dh Mum just sits by on her wealth
Oh that witch! She should be handing her 'wealth' over to you, you sorrowful suffering victim of her son's fertility 😂

They did actually.

I don't think grandparents are obliged to help out but in our case I don't have any family and dh Mum just sits by on her wealth watching us suffer looking after dc alone. I'm surprised but never expected much. And it's very very sad when I go to things at school and watch all the other gp loving every minute of seeing their dc and my dc not having that. If I could go back I'd have married into a family that did have an interest in their own family tbh

This whole paragraph I don't know where to start. How would you feel if your DH said he regretted marrying you because you have no family around? Do people really get married on the basis of how much future childcare will be provided? And how dare your MIL not fund your lifestyle at the expense of her own!

sits on her wealth
the most entitled sentence in this entire thread. Proves the OP’s point entirely

Sorry tiddly I meant to reply to someone else with above. I agree with your posts!' Xxx

Unemployment only ever rose to around 10% so this was always something that affected the minority of people.

I'm not saying that the economy in the 1970s was tickety boo. Nobody can expect to live many decades and to never experience recessions and difficult economic times. The difference is that there are now real structural issues that make life harder for the majority of parents today such as astronomical house prices and a necessity to access expensive childcare that will be around for the very long term unless there is some drastic intervention (which isn't going to happen).

It's annoying because it seems many grandparents will never accept they had things easier because everything wasn't easy. There is a distinction between the two!

Think I will just keep working! It sounds easier that putting up with Cheeky f***ery. This response of 'well you shouldn't have had kids' seems the stock response of the younger generation now. I can't imagine I would ever have said this to my parents.

@IrmaGord he knows. He also says would be easier if he'd married someone with a family. It's not meant to be nasty just that we're really struggling having no childcare.& can see the disadvantages our dc have for not having any that care. We get by though. I don't agree gp are obliged to provide care but am sad when they don't want to. I hope I don't turn into such a gp!

Oh and we don't expect a penny and certainly don't get one but it is a shame when MIL doesn't buy dc any presents not even a small token gift but will happily turn up to christmas expecting to be fed every year.

I am currently pregnant with my first child, and we have already picked out the nursery we wish to send him to. This however has not stopped my MIL telling anyone who will listen that she will not be "used" for childcare, as she still has a life to enjoy. We have never once mentioned childcare to her, or asked anything of her.

Fair enough if thats something she doesn't want to do, but it is frustrating listening to her act as though we have just decided to have kids and now expect her help. We expect nothing from her. But the more she goes on, the more rude I think it is. Her grandson hasn't even arrived yet, and she is already talking about him as if he is going to inconvenience her. I am not sure if this is her setting boundaries, in case we were to ever ask her (we wouldn't ever have anyway), but all she has done has annoy us and make us believe she isn't excited to meet him as all she is focusing on is making sure everyone is aware she is "too busy" to be a granny pretty much.

My Mother on the other hand, would love nothing more than to look after him, and has said so on numerous occasions, however not feasible as she lives in a different city. She does however visit regularly and stays for the weekend so I have no doubt she'll be a big help during her visits and enjoy spending time with him.

I don't believe grandparents should be expected to provide childcare. Yes, the economy is absolutely up the left right now. But to some extent, we are all aware of childcare costs before having children and should be able to at least consider how this will impact us financially and plan accordingly. However it would be incredibly naive to disregard just how beneficial it can be to receive help from grandparents. It is a big ask however, and although in my circumstances I feel a little bitter at my MILs attitude, I can fully see why she wouldn't want the commitment. I just wish she would stop acting as though we have asked her!! She must have some friends who complain about having to do it, and so is making sure we're aware of our thoughts... not that we would ever be in any doubt!

I get that it's extremely difficult to manage without two incomes and that childcare is expensive. I'm a young GP, and it was that way for me too.
But, that isn't the fault of women in their 70s and the onus is not on them to solve the problems created by government policies.
Rather than attack them it would do far more good to campaign for better conditions, vote for candidates that prioritise these issues and start fighting for change to the underlying problems that mean you need the help in the first place. Because while an army of elderly women are quietly providing thousands of hours of free childcare, there is never going to be the incentive to make change, and you'll end up feeling obliged to look after toddlers in your 70s too.
Which is absolutely fine if you want to, but there's no way you should have to because your adult children have no other options.

Unemployment only ever rose to around 10% so this was always something that affected the minority of people

It was 12% at its peak and as high as 20% in N Ireland, Scotland and some parts of the north. It was enough of a problem in London for a running total of the unemployment figures to be displayed on the front of City Hall by the GLC.

Why did the grandparents ever decide to have children ? If they weren't willing to help them out a little bit ? (Assuming they're in the position to do so). I'm not saying full time child care etc. but why wouldn't you want to help your struggling child, if you could ? Most grandparents really want grand children and they massively enrich their lives.

I fully expect to help and support my children throughout their lives. I won't just wash my hands with them, once they turn 18. I put them here.

One hand washes the other, so they say.

I don't think anyone is entitled to anything. But if there's respect on both sides, what's the issue ?

In our case, both sets of grandparents love looking after our children.
They're not able to provide proper childcare because they both work/ live far away. If they did have the time, I wouldn't let them have the children for more than 1-2 days a week. Out of respect for them, because I don't think it's fair. They would have them all week, but I don't think that's fair on them at all. For now, they have them whenever THEY want to. And they really want to.

threshold

I think you make a very good point.

Historically, energy tarrifs and expectations have all grown around the fact that two adults work, and also, there is a housing shortage because families don't live together, across the generations. In the sixties, one person' s salary would do cover the bills. The way we've gone has shaped the current situation, for better or worse. But I think grandparents ought to try to help out because it is so hard for the younger generation doing it. I guess the old stars would appreciate the favour being returned when an adult child checks up on them when they are staying in the care home.

Still a minority and the generation that experienced this will have also experienced decades of low unemployment too. Their position now will be a culmination of all the decades they have lived through, many being economically prosperous and more favourable to raising a family than current conditions.

Lower priced housing, free university education and more opportunities to get a reasonably paid job without a degree. Many many families were able to survive off one income or at least to have one parent working very PT, negating the need for childcare. There was more council housing available and lots of people in their 60s and 70s benefited from things like 'right to buy' that have left today's low earners in a more difficult situation.

The economy and society wasn't perfect then and undoubtedly there were people that didn't prosper but to pretend that it was equivalent to what families face now is frankly insulting.

I think you're being unfair.

On the one hand, many on this thread have stated that people choose to have children and essentially shouldn't have children they can't afford to look after (including the cost of childcare). Ostensibly that seems fair enough, however previous generations have presided over decades of political and economic change that has culminated in a situation where very many people technically can't afford to have children. These are people that would make great parents and are in gainful and societally important jobs but the cost of living and raising kids in the current climate has effectively priced them out of children. Is this right or fair? I suspect the majority of people would agree that it isn't.

So what can be done about it? Well the reality is that we can't rely on an underfunded and over burdened state system. Nobody seems to want to pay anymore tax so establishing a system like they have in Scandinavia with affordable heavily subsidised childcare is unrealistic.

We are therefore left with the only really option many people have, which is relying on our nearest and dearest to assist us at a time of need. This is hardly a groundbreaking concept and is much more prevalent in human history than looking for the state to intervene. Yet, many people won't accept they have any obligation to even those they love most. This is disappointing, damaging and hugely selfish and I can understand people that want children assessing the potential involvement of further grandparents before having children with someone as this could be the deciding factor as to whether children are affordable or not.

@Bumpitybumper you seem to have missed the point that many have made on the thread that the majority of grandparents won't be able to look after their grandkids because they'll still be working. I know you've enjoyed looking at the pre 2000 years with rose tinted specs, where every family had a dad in full time employment for 40 years, while mum baked cookies for the kids 8 hours a day and then they both retired at 55 on a pension of thousands a year, in their 5 bedroomed house which they paid 50p for back in the 70's, but for most that wasn't true. Putting aside that this wasn't a reality for most people, the majority of grandparents these days are going to be working til they're 67 at least.

I'm one of those. I'm nearly 50. I've got two children, one of whom is at university at the moment, on the minimum grant which we'll have to top up. My dd is likely to be the same. So after paying for childcare myself, then putting two kids though university, I'm then expected to give up work in a few years when they have kids so I can look after them? I don't think so. I'm fucking knackered as it is and I've done my time. I'll help out now and then, but I'm not going to be a full time child minder and neither would they expect me to be.

There's a lot more that I could say about this, but this is too long already, so I'll leave it there. You're only interested in statistics and not the lived reality anyway, it seems.

I genuinely don't understand the problem here. People have expectations all the time, but just be honest about what you want to, or do not want to provide in the form of childcare? if you have always had poor boundaries, or a poor relationship that is too fragile to cope with honest discussion, then you have bigger problems than babysitting the DGC. Entitlement only becomes a problem when the expectations are met and then resented. Grandparents, on the whole should be old enough to form boundaries without destroying relationships? My kids have wanted all sorts of things throughout their lives that I haven't been able to provide (or fully provide), so what's the difference with this?

Alot of the problems with the very old not wanting to go into a care home is because they have some level of dementia and don't understand that they need care. I have personal experience as I have LPA for an elderly relative who thought she had eaten, thought she had shopped but the evidence was there was no food in the house and she was starving to death. She hated me when she went into the home, she has no children and I was the closest to her so that was why I had the LPA, it was awful to know how much she hated what I did but I couldn't leave her at home to starve.

I've told my kids to ignore anything I say if the time comes when I need care but don't think I do. They have had absolution in advance. I've been working for the last 54 years and have a state pension and a private one, if my husband goes before me I will also have 50% of his pension and a house to sell. There will be enough money for me to go into a nice home. I've worked, brought up 4 children and been my DHs carer for 30 years so I think I am entitled to a decent level of care. I've done childcare for GC for years, am currently bringing up a teenage GC whose home life has broken down.

I don't get any benefits, I don't get subsidised travel as I use my car, I do get free prescriptions but due to a medical condition I have had free prescriptions since my 40s so I got that regardless of age. I pay for private dentistry as there are no NHS dentists available where I live. I pay my taxes.

If I resist care it won't be because I haven't planned ahead, it will be because I've become very vulnerable and need someone else to make the decisions.

You see me now and think life has been easy for me, well it hasn't. I had to work and the standard working week was longer 50 years ago, I got poorly paid in the early part of my working life as women had to fight for the right to equal pay, you benefit from that don't you. I was late 20s before I could join a pension scheme, lots of employers didn't welcome women into pension schemes hence my husband has a better pension than I do. You don't see the young mum in the 70s working fulltime without the luxuries at home that people often take for granted now, no washing machine, no dishwasher. Housework was harder but it still had to be done. You don't see me embarrassed as I waited for the jewellery shop to be empty before I went in to sell my engagement ring to buy things for my children, you don't see me trying to work out how to pay the fuel bills and feed the children and pay the mortgage. There were no foodbanks but sometimes I would go home from my mum's with a food parcel.

You are having it tough now but you don't know how it will be in 20, 30 or 40 years. You are comparing young parents with mortgages and children with elderly people whose children are grown and mortgages are paid. Not a fair comparison.

I think the biggest difference between you and me is I never resented anything my grandparents or parents got, I recognised that they had gone through hard times and I accepted that when you are bringing up children you have less than others.