Page 11 | Entitled attitude: grandparents must provide childcare

Hope54321 · 2022-09-22T13:11:07+00:00

I’m seeing a lot more of this attitude quite recently. Why do people have children if they can’t look after them or pay for their childcare? Why is it that grandparents are expected to do the childcare so the parents can work? I think it’s acceptable if the grandparents are offering to help out, but to feel like grandparents should be obliged to offer childcare is simply taking the biscuit.

breadandmillk · 22/09/2022 17:14

"Grandparents that don’t want to provide childcare (which is their right) can’t really demand/ want/ expect care in old age, not because it’s a tit for tat but it’s reciprocity."

Really hate this school of thought - it is not reciprocity to expect grandparents to bring up their own children AND provide childcare to their children's children in order to be cared for in their old age. You care for your parents in their old age because they cared for YOU when you were a child - that's the reciprocity!!

Oneearringlost · 22/09/2022 17:15

Dotjones · 22/09/2022 14:30

Everything a child does, even when they reach adulthood, is ultimately the responsibility of their parents and grandparents. Therefore it's right that grandparents should be expected to provide free childcare for their grandchildren; if they didn't want to do this, they shouldn't have had children of their own in the first place, that way the grandchildren could never have existed.

Are you a " Submissive"?

GraveyardStick · 22/09/2022 17:15

IDontDrinkTea · 22/09/2022 16:48

in no way do i expect regular childcare, but I do resent that my parents won’t help at all with one off childcare. For example, I went into hospital alone to have my second baby while my husband looked after the eldest. Neither of my parents work, they just don’t want to. I do resent that I had to give birth alone because they don’t want to help me

That’s really sad, I would look after a neighbours child while they gave birth if I didn’t work/have work that day so I would definitely do it for a family member. That’s not entitled of you at all to be upset they wouldn’t do that for you.

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 22/09/2022 17:16

Moversnotshakers · 22/09/2022 17:06

Some entitled posts on here. Im a grandmother of 5 . Aged 55. I work full time and have at least another 12 yrs to work to pay off my mortgage to get my pension.. By the time i retire my grandkids wont need childcare. My kids understand this. I do occasionally have one or two of them on an odd Sat night stayover but thats all.

And that's absolutely fine! Who is saying it's not?

LuckySantangelo35 · 22/09/2022 17:18

EveningOverRooftops · 22/09/2022 15:29

Well, my mother had 8 children. Shifted many of us off to grandparents for the summer and other holidays or expected us kids to help parent her kids. I spent most of the holidays with my grandparents and most weekends.

no my mother didn’t work.

I think it’s the least she can do is provide what her mother did for her.

and no she still doesn’t work.

@EveningOverRooftops

its the least she could do is it? Really? What makes you say that exactly?

StrikeandRobin · 22/09/2022 17:20

Dotjones · 22/09/2022 14:30

Everything a child does, even when they reach adulthood, is ultimately the responsibility of their parents and grandparents. Therefore it's right that grandparents should be expected to provide free childcare for their grandchildren; if they didn't want to do this, they shouldn't have had children of their own in the first place, that way the grandchildren could never have existed.

WTH?!

My DGM isn’t responsible for me choosing to have a child, neither is my DM.

jesusjoan · 22/09/2022 17:20

@Thomasina79 Agree. We're in our 50s, work FT and we help out with our grandkids with sleepovers etc. quite frequently but it's honestly knackering and tbh I can't imaging what it would be like if we were 67, even if retired. We're both pretty fit but I don't think either of us would have the energy.

We do it through choice because a) they're adorable and b) we want to help our kids so they can work but I do think we'd actually resent it if it was actually expected of us and I would urge parents to try and take this aspect into consideration - kids are really, really hard work when your older and not quite as nimble as you used to be!

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 22/09/2022 17:21

LuckySantangelo35 · 22/09/2022 17:18

@EveningOverRooftops

its the least she could do is it? Really? What makes you say that exactly?

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The fact she used her own mother for the same?

Wouldloveanother · 22/09/2022 17:21

breadandmillk · 22/09/2022 17:14

"Grandparents that don’t want to provide childcare (which is their right) can’t really demand/ want/ expect care in old age, not because it’s a tit for tat but it’s reciprocity."

Really hate this school of thought - it is not reciprocity to expect grandparents to bring up their own children AND provide childcare to their children's children in order to be cared for in their old age. You care for your parents in their old age because they cared for YOU when you were a child - that's the reciprocity!!

No. They chose to have a child, and in doing so, chose to care for that child. I care for DD without any expectation that she will care for me in my old age. What you’re saying is a bit like walking your neighbour’s dogs without telling them because you love dogs, then announcing afterwards that they owe you in return.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 22/09/2022 17:22

I'm so sick of being told I didn't need to work in the 70s and 80s.

Another thing that baffles me about assumptions concerning women, is that if you don't need to work then it must follow on that you don't want to work.

I have a professional career. I love my work; it matters to me, and I like to think it offers a significant contribution to my specific field. No matter how much money my family had I would still keep on with my job.

Oneearringlost · 22/09/2022 17:22

breadandmillk · 22/09/2022 17:14

"Grandparents that don’t want to provide childcare (which is their right) can’t really demand/ want/ expect care in old age, not because it’s a tit for tat but it’s reciprocity."

Really hate this school of thought - it is not reciprocity to expect grandparents to bring up their own children AND provide childcare to their children's children in order to be cared for in their old age. You care for your parents in their old age because they cared for YOU when you were a child - that's the reciprocity!!

I agree.

lifehappens12 · 22/09/2022 17:22

Before I get to my point - I have two children and a partner and we work full time with no grandparent support - they are deceased.

Growing up my mum didn't work and as a family we coped on a single income that my mum managed. My dad who earned the income would have no idea about the family budget - she managed it all. Reading it back - it almost sounds like she was controlling but she was ensuring the bills were paid we were fed.

We ran one car and had one camping holiday a year. Very few new clothes and we didn't eat out much etc. she did all the decorating at home.

My point is - I often read that families need two wages - but is that due to a rising expectation of how we live? I am sure we spend more not just because prices have gone up but we consume more.

Quincythequince · 22/09/2022 17:22

tfresh · 22/09/2022 14:17

It's the world grandparents have created. Most families will require 2 working parents to have any chance of putting a roof over the kids head.

Grandparents could avoid this by giving back to the system that has given them so much. However, I don't see this happening anytime soon, so maybe chin up and help out.

What?
How have grandparents created this?

MrsAvocet · 22/09/2022 17:24

I don't really understand the "well I hope they don't expect looking after in their old age if they won't help with the grandchildren" argument. My parents never babysat for any of their grandchildren except in emergencies but it didn't stop me and my siblings caring for them in their last years. I never saw things in such transactional terms anyway, but if I had done, the care I was "repaying" was everything they did for me when I was growing up. I didn't expect them to have to gain extra credit by looking after my children too. They worked their socks off bringing up me and my siblings so if it's necessary to do something to deserve the support of your children in your old age, they'd more than done that before I even thought about children.

Butchyrestingface · 22/09/2022 17:24

This thread has attracted some complete nutters.

LuckySantangelo35 · 22/09/2022 17:25

@Lilypickles1 @TiddleyWink

Nope it’s not an obligation, but why wouldn’t you want to? Being a parent is bloody hard and relentless, if you can’t help your kids who can you help? Would also argue if you can’t help with your grandkids do not expect help when your old and need a hand yourself.

your parents looked after you when you were a baby and then a toddler then a teenager and then a young adult…

… and you seriously wouldn’t support them in their old age UNLESS they look after YOUR kids that YOU chose to have. On top of everything they’ve already done for you.

Soooo entitled and mean and unkind

ancientgran · 22/09/2022 17:26

PlumPudd · 22/09/2022 17:13

Jesus do people not understand the difference between general trends and personal anecdotes.

The baby boomer generation IN GENERAL had it easier in terms of stable jobs, university grants, lower house prices, free NHS care, final salary pensions etc. Their kids are not so lucky IN GENERAL and are going to have to struggle more, work longer and earn less in less stable jobs. Study after study has shown this.

Jumping up with an anecdote that is different to the general trend doesn’t disprove the trend!! Aka “well that wasn’t the case for me. I’m a boomer and we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.”

Of course not everybody in the boomer generation had it easier and not everybody in the current generation has it tougher, but that is the general trend and it is generally harder to look after a family, pay childcare, work and own a property these days than it used to be. That doesn’t mean grandparents have to help of course, (my parents don’t and I don’t begrudge them it, they are old and not especially well and even if they were young and vigorous it would be their choice, albeit a choice I’d find a bit hurtful). But if grandparents can help a little and would like to, I expect it would be very gratefully received by most of their kids. Especially those that are struggling that but harder

Yes ignore the fact that women earned significantly less than men, that lots of pension schemes weren't open to women, that some jobs might have been stable but have you seen unemployment statistics for the 70s. Yes ignore all that and we were having a ball.

PlumPudd · 22/09/2022 17:27

whumpthereitis · 22/09/2022 17:11

oh, I can absolutely acknowledge that people don’t, and to that extent I understand, but at the same time it is hard to understand the motivation behind some decisions people make when the negative consequences are both significant and obvious. Incidentally, something being understandable does not make it any less a bad decision, and one that someone could refrain from making. They may not like refraining from making it, but that doesn’t change the fact they have the ability to.

For what it’s worth I do have a car, travel a fair but, and have more than four outfits. All of which are beneficial to my life and I can comfortably afford without negatively impacting myself. I don’t have gas fired appliances, credit cards, or children. I don’t eat red meat and I limit my intake of sugar. I also don’t drink alcohol.

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Fair enough. Having a car and travelling and having more clothes than you need are technically irrational decisions as they aren’t essential, and they are detrimental to society as a whole (air pollution, climate change, resource consumption) and you will eventually suffer in the long term as a result of having dirty air, and fewer healthy young working people to pay taxes to fund the NHS. They also involve you spending money that you could be saving or using to hoard resources in the event of another pandemic, recession, extreme government or other unforeseen geopolitical / socioeconomic shock.

Not saying you shouldn’t have these things. Just saying that we all make decisions that are personally beneficially but ultimately not rational. Having kids is one such decision, going on foreign holidays is another.

The negative consequences of having kids often aren’t obvious or guaranteed or foreseeable. Who could have predicted that Brexit, a pandemic and then the Ukrainian war would have plunged the country into a cost of living crisis that will mean many families can’t afford childcare for a few years, when if none or only some of these things had happened they would have been financially okay. Who can predict a sudden redundancy, or the diagnosis of an illness or disability, or the untimely death of a partner, any of which could plunge you into financial insecurity?

If we only ever did things that we knew would DEFINITELY work out okay for them at an individual level, nobody would have kids at all - which for us as a species would be ruinous. Or buy a house, or leave the house, or get on a plane, or do anything

LuckySantangelo35 · 22/09/2022 17:27

@breadandmillk

"Grandparents that don’t want to provide childcare (which is their right) can’t really demand/ want/ expect care in old age, not because it’s a tit for tat but it’s reciprocity."

your parents looked after you when you were a baby and then a toddler then a teenager and then a young adult…

and that’s still not enough for you…

… you are saying you wouldn’t support them in their old age UNLESS they look after YOUR kids that YOU chose to have. On top of everything they’ve already done for you.

Soooo entitled and mean and unkind

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 22/09/2022 17:27

"Grandparents that don’t want to provide childcare (which is their right) can’t really demand/ want/ expect care in old age, not because it’s a tit for tat but it’s reciprocity."

I'm not a grandparent. My kid's only 7. But the thought of becoming a burden on my child in my old age horrifies me. I did not have children as some kind of insurance policy that would see me taken care of in my dotage. If I need care, I'll pay for it, and I hope for nothing other than a loving mother/child relationship as they grow and become independent.

Sadly my own mother - with whom both my brother and I enjoyed a wonderful relationship in our adulthood - didn't live to see old age, much as I wish fate had decreed otherwise. But I know she was of the same mindset.

Any care DH and I do or don't ultimately provide as grandparents isn't with any expectation of that kind of reciprocity.

Tiddlywinx · 22/09/2022 17:28

Romansolider2014 · 22/09/2022 17:12

Seems to be a conflation of issues.

Expecting regular free childcare = arguably entitled

Having zero help/enthusiam from family = fucking hard and it hurts. Why would GP not want to be involved at all?

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Arguably they are intertwined, my ILs don’t work my mother still does (so wouldn’t expect it of her) but I was disappointed when my IL who live about 20 mins away have never offered to help, not once. Maybe that’s me expecting childcare? I don’t know.

so in my case it’s not that they don’t want to be involved it’s that they don’t want to make an effort. They expect the children to be brought to them, like they expect care in old age and to be financially provided for in old age as ‘an employee pension is a con’

BatshitCrazyWoman · 22/09/2022 17:28

I'm in my late 50s. Both my parents worked but all my grandparents were dead, so no childcare there. I worked when my children were small, but both my parents were still working, and lived overseas. My MIL was in ill-health and 80 miles away, so no childcare there. I'm still working, but have no grandchildren. If did have them, how could I look after them, given I'm working?

ancientgran · 22/09/2022 17:31

jesusjoan · 22/09/2022 17:20

@Thomasina79 Agree. We're in our 50s, work FT and we help out with our grandkids with sleepovers etc. quite frequently but it's honestly knackering and tbh I can't imaging what it would be like if we were 67, even if retired. We're both pretty fit but I don't think either of us would have the energy.

We do it through choice because a) they're adorable and b) we want to help our kids so they can work but I do think we'd actually resent it if it was actually expected of us and I would urge parents to try and take this aspect into consideration - kids are really, really hard work when your older and not quite as nimble as you used to be!

I'm 69, still have a job although it is part time, am my disabled husbands carer and do childcare for GC. At times it is beyond knackering but I do think having young ones around keeps me young and active, in most ways caring for DH is harder. I think the job is going to have to go soon but that will mean some changes.

PlumPudd · 22/09/2022 17:32

ancientgran · 22/09/2022 17:26

Yes ignore the fact that women earned significantly less than men, that lots of pension schemes weren't open to women, that some jobs might have been stable but have you seen unemployment statistics for the 70s. Yes ignore all that and we were having a ball.

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I don’t think you’ve read or understood my message. I didn’t say boomers had a ball, or that nobody from that generation had a hard time or that nothing had improved. I said that IN GENERAL boomers had it easier than their kids. As numerous studies have shown….

You seem to be ignoring that yourself?

www.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/news/2018/nov/younger-people-could-be-worse-their-parents-generation-their-whole-lives

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/11/politics/millennials-income-stalled-upward-mobility-us/index.html

www.ft.com/content/81343d9e-187b-11e8-9e9c-25c814761640

Chooksnroses · 22/09/2022 17:33

tfresh · 22/09/2022 14:17

It's the world grandparents have created. Most families will require 2 working parents to have any chance of putting a roof over the kids head.

Grandparents could avoid this by giving back to the system that has given them so much. However, I don't see this happening anytime soon, so maybe chin up and help out.

??? I don't understand? Which system has given me what? And what do I have to give back?