Entitled attitude: grandparents must provide childcare

[Hope54321]

I’m seeing a lot more of this attitude quite recently. Why do people have children if they can’t look after them or pay for their childcare? Why is it that grandparents are expected to do the childcare so the parents can work? I think it’s acceptable if the grandparents are offering to help out, but to feel like grandparents should be obliged to offer childcare is simply taking the biscuit.

"Grandparents that don’t want to provide childcare (which is their right) can’t really demand/ want/ expect care in old age, not because it’s a tit for tat but it’s reciprocity."

I don't expect DD to care for me in my old age. She has a life, job and home 3 hours away...I'm not that selfish to demand she gives it all up for me, neither would she demand/expect the same from me.

Yes you’re right.
But OP is referring to the expectation of grandparents to begin with.

This is very different to ‘aren’t we lucky our kids’ GPs help out’ to ‘you are their GP you should be doing this’

@ancientgran Yes that's a good point actually, a few hours in their company often feels like the equivalent of a bloody good workout at the gym. I'm sure the mental toll of looking after DH is really exhausting. And at the end of the day, grandkids might be knackering (which they are), and they might have you tearing your hair out at times, but they are such good fun and bring a lot of joy.

I started work at 17 and finished at 67 following a serious accident. I was gutted having to stop but it physically wasn't really an option to continue. I helped my children whenever I could, but they understood completely when it wasn't possible.

I'm not saying care in old age should be dependent on providing childcare, but children are under absolutely no obligation to repay their parents in any way for bringing them up. That is an obligation freely assumed by parents when they choose to have children.

No, I do not expect that of my children, plus there are many types of parents in this world, not all good. Abusive, narcissistic and neglectful ‘raise’ kids too…

being a parent doesn’t entitle you to anything and I’d never put that on my children.

but seriously though, if you refused to help your child when they needed it with the odd sleepover or baby sit or the odd school pick up as a favour, I mean it’s your right to, but do you really think it’s then reasonable to expect your child to care for you when you need it.

you’re also misunderstanding my actual point, which was that no one has the right to demand or expect care. Kindness begets kindness

@Chooksnroses

all your money and your house and all your time according to some on here, they think it’s the least you could do

Grandparents that don’t want to provide childcare (which is their right) can’t really demand/ want/ expect care in old age, not because it’s a tit for tat but it’s reciprocity

that'll be a care home, then. You weren't expecting an inheritance, were you?

You do realise that women actually created this issue, surely?

Up until the 80s , mortgages were only provided on the main wage earner. Usually at 3X the salary for a first mortgage then 2X or 2.5X for the next one.
Women felt it was discriminatory and demanded that their salaries should also be taken into account and that it was unfair that it was assumed that a woman would stay at home with the babies. ( Incidentally, banks never assumed this, the mortgage offer was based on main wage earner!)

Consequently, couples could then acquire much larger mortgages , yet women still chose to stay at home , in the main.
This led to higher house prices as couples were afforded higher mortgages.

The first one says 'could,' 'theory, 'predicts' and 'suggests.' It also says that this isn't confined to the UK and concludes although it is too early to tell whether young adults' earnings will catch up with those of their parents' generation over the life course. So jury's out on the first one, I feel. The second one is exclusively US. And the third one points out that other countries have it even worse than the UK.

An old schoolfriend of mine his mum has his little boy quite a lot. He is one of 8 so she misses a house full of children. She also has her other 6 grandchildren. She often has a couple overnight. She does it because she wants to though and to help them save to get on the property ladder.

The children range in age from 2-13. His dad passed away a few years ago and she has a generous widows pension. She still lives in the same 5 bedroom house he grew up in. One of his brothers passed away in his 20's.

you’re also misunderstanding my actual point, which was that no one has the right to demand or expect care. Kindness begets kindness

except when it doesn’t. People can spend their lives providing care whenever it is asked of them, sacrifice their own needs and go over and above for others, and STILL end up having to fend for themselves in old age. It’s not at all uncommon, actually.

The problem is that when people think they’re entitled to something, they don’t appreciate someone providing it as a kindness. They just think it’s what they’re owed, and thus feel little need to pay it back.

The baby boomer generation IN GENERAL had it easier in terms of stable jobs, university grants, lower house prices, free NHS care, final salary pensions etc. Their kids are not so lucky IN GENERAL and are going to have to struggle more, work longer and earn less in less stable jobs. Study after study has shown this.

There was massive unemployment in the 70s
Only 5% of the population went to university
Lower house prices and high interest rates, the basic rate of tax was 33%
The NHS is still free
Women weren’t given entry to many pension schemes and lots of occupations didn’t offer one

Can we have a link to at least one of those studies, please?

My point was responding to someone who says the older generation need to pay something back, I was correctly pointing out they already do. Did you mean to be so rude?

No, I didn’t say I wouldn’t, my mother lives far away and works so would be bananas to expect anything from her, except visits when she’s able. She fulfils this.
as I said it’s not a tit for tat, score settling to point scoring, but expecting care from anyone, is a high expectation
I won’t look after my in laws, their sense of entitlement is maddening.

Judging by some of the posters, they should give up work, sell the house, give the money from the house sale to the kids, and provide full time child care for the grandchildren. 🙄

Every situation and generation is somewhat different to the previous. My DM was a SAHM (50s and 60s) until her youngest was at secondary school, when she returned to nursing. My dad was in the Navy, so often away at sea. Both sets of grandparents lived 200 miles away, so there was no childminding but my gran and her sister looked after us for a week or two so DM could catch up with dad somewhere for a holiday.

DM helped my sister out ad hoc (and from a distance) when her kids were small, but they were mostly overseas and DM was still working three days/shifts weekly until she was 79 to eke out her pension. My sister and BIL do some childcare for their grandkids and enjoy it, in their active 60s, and are close enough to cover emergencies.

By the time my DC was born in 1999, I was 44, and I paid for childcare to continue working but the GPs were all still a long way away, and getting older. DM came to visit and would help out, and PILs gave us a weekend away, but they were mid 70s then and found toddler-wrangling too much for them.

I've just retired, and doubt that grandchildren will appear inside the next decade, but I have MIL near us in a care home, so I do most of her errands/admin and visit every few days. It's likely that we'll be mid-late 70s before I get to be grandma, and who knows how much hands on help we'll be able to offer. Our DS family (presuming there is one) will benefit from the financial choices we made years ago though.

theres absolutely a place for care homes. My late Nan ended up in one because my mother couldn’t provide the care at home anymore

id help my mother out how I can, within the realm of what she wants, we live hours apart. Am I going to move? No. Will she, v unlikely, but I wouldn’t see her struggle. But I’ll do it because I want to, not for the promise of cash. I’m of the opinion she should spend it all now. She earned it

That is absolutely appalling - and exactly the kind of things OP is referring to

It is quite the assumption that grandparents will expect family care in old age, but if they do then they’re also wrong. It’s a kindness, not an entitlement.

The thing is that they’ll of course have to fund their own care if their children don’t provide it, which is fine until their children get angry when they realize there’s no inheritance coming their way.

Yes I agree. I was a carer for both my parents. They were generous with their time and help and so I was in return when they needed it. (And I mean serious live in caring help, including cleaning pooey bums the works).

My inlaw’s entitlement however is breathtaking. They sucked my gpil’s dry, receiving substantial financial assistance, childcare and physical Labour, with the understanding they would pay it forward to their children, but instead they always have their hands out and instead of being helpful are meddling and invasive. My gmil is shocked and said she wished she’d never helped them and is shocked by their selfishness.

So no, they won’t receive any help from DP and I. And raising my DH doesn’t mean he has to become a carer for them. A loving reciprocal relationship is needed to deserve that kind of old age care.

I don’t think there should be any huge expectations, but if someone can help out then they should, same as when your parents are elderly, there should be no huge expectations such as moving in with your kids and them being full time carers, but if they can help you out they should.

I also don’t agree that you owe your parents care just because they’re your parents. My MIL didn’t work throughout the majority of my wife’s childhood and when she did it was only a few hours a week, she used any childcare she could find, before school clubs, after school clubs, holiday clubs, neighbours, family, friends, anything to get out of looking after her own kids so she could do what she wanted (usually gym, shopping, beauty treatments etc). Even when she didn’t work she wouldn’t even get up in the morning to take the kids to school, her husband did it before he started work.

She won’t be providing any help with any children we have as she’s now divorced and has to work full time, but I doubt she would offer anyway since she won’t even look after our dog for a day (despite having her own and they get on fine). Why on earth should my wife care for her mother when she’s elderly? Not every parent was loving and doting and would bend over backwards for their kids.

My MIL is selfish and to this day thinks she shouldn’t have to work and should be looked after by someone (as has been the case the vast majority of her adult life). She’s made it clear she expects us to care for her when she’s older, because apparently that’s why she would have done for her mum (I don’t doubt that, but she never got the chance as her mum died young) but I really don’t see why we should when we won’t have the time or the energy (we will both be working full time until we’re in our late 60’s I imagine) and she’s never gone out of her way to help us.

You know what they say about statistics?

Yes all studies about the future are “predictions” and all scientists and economists use non absolutist language and talk in “coulds” and “likelies”, that’s how science works and how all scientists are trained! Evolution is still scientifically referred to as a “theory”.

Yes the second one is the US, and the third one says it’s bad in the UK and other places have it worse. What’s your point?

These are studies looking at generational trends in the UK and economies that have been similarly structured and are at similar demographic points in their timeline e.g they all broadly experienced a post war period of affluence, 70’s depression, 80’s financial boom, 2009 recessions, covid and have an ageing population.

There are plenty more studies that say the same thing about the UK and other similar economies, but as you’re already disagreeing with sources that UCL, CNN and the FT find very credible, I won’t bother posting them.

I thought dotjones was being sarcastic