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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Diana and Charles Questions

379 replies

AdoraLovesCake · 21/09/2022 06:51

So this is not a AIBU but it's an ATBU for are THEY being unreasonable.

I have seen a lot of you tube shorts marking the 25 year death of Lady Diana Spencer/the princess. They say she was a devoted mum and participated in the boys' school events, gave them macdonald's ect. Was a lovely, normal mum. I don't dispute that. Even though she died just before I was born so i hardly know anything about her, i think she is amazing and did not deserve to die. That brings me on to how some people said she wrote in her diary that she thought Charles was planning to kill her (staging an accident) so he could marry Camilla and that she knew something was wrong with the brakes in her car. For any of you who don't know, she died in a car accident in Paris on August 31rd 1997.

She was the people's princess and adored by all, she was one of us as her children went to public schools, she dressed casual. ect.

I also have some questions:

  • Where was Diana buried, I know she had a state funeral thing?
  • Did Diana see her kids much after the divorce?
  • If Diana was alive now, what would her position be?
  • Charles did not mention Diana in his becoming king speech - he could have said 'And the boys' mother who taught them so much' or something - do you think he should have?

YABU: They are being unreasonable and Charles did not order Diana's murder
YANBU: They are not being unreasonable and Charles did order Diana's murder

OP posts:
x2boys · 21/09/2022 09:07

Choopi · 21/09/2022 09:05

I'm too young to know much about Diana or understand the fawning some people do but just on the 'she had no bolt hole'. Did she not have any money of her own to buy a home is that why she would have to rely on someone else to house her? Was she forced to live in a house in London with no privacy? Like not allowed to sell it and buy one that did have privacy?

I would have presumed when you divorced a Prince you get a pretty nice settlement but clearly that wasn't the case if she couldn't even house her children in an appropriate way that provided them with privacy?

She did get a financial settlement from Charles, I will have to Google to find our how much but I think it was fairly substantial.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 21/09/2022 09:10

Patienceisntvirtuous · 21/09/2022 08:39

I known I'm slightly off topic and being rather uncouth with this but, am I the only person who doesn't think she was attractive?She was cute and striking in her youth as much as the next person but I don't think she aged well. She had a rather ungainly shape I thought, and looked rather old for her years. But I feel I'm the only person who thinks this. There were far nicer looking women of her era, both 'famous' aristocratic ones and in general.

She was very photogenic for sure and that helped a lot. Her hair was truly shocking though! The photos of her by famous photographer begining with T ( can't remember!) I think she looked stunning. She had gelled down hair in them.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 21/09/2022 09:11

x2boys · 21/09/2022 09:07

She did get a financial settlement from Charles, I will have to Google to find our how much but I think it was fairly substantial.

17 million springs to mind but could be wrong. I remember thinking it wasn't actually that much.

OfficiallyBroken · 21/09/2022 09:14

Actually laughing at the idea that Diana was one of us.

There's a reason a big fuss was made about Kate being a commoner marrying William, our as things stand future King. Diana was from an aristocratic family with royal blood going back centuries. She wouldn't have known what a normal life looked like if it slapped her in the face even if she did play the part of empathetic princess for the media. The fact that she's buried on an island on her family's private estate just underlines that.

Additionally, she wasn't adored by all - although quite a number of people felt sorry for her basically being used as breeding stock for the royal family and her not realising that was her only purpose until it was a done deal.

LouisCatorze · 21/09/2022 09:17

It was a Mario Testino photo @MrsPelligrinoPetrichor .

The Spencers have wiry looking red hair. Diana probably was more strawberry blonde than her siblings but her hair colour was always massively 'enhanced'. If you look at what her sisters look like now, you'd get a gist of how Diana would have aged.

I think she had an 'aura' about her that gave the impression that she was better looking than she really was.The dazzling jewels and best designer clothes undoubtedly helped the cause.

Lady Helen Windsor was much more beautiful than Diana, if you look at similarly aged 'Royals.'

Novum · 21/09/2022 09:18

LouisCatorze · 21/09/2022 08:17

I didn't ever understand the cultish adoration of Diana, although I have a teen DD who won't hear a bad word said against her. She did amazing things for some charities and causes but I think she was an arch-manipulator, probably with some type of borderline personality disorder (look at all the 'silent phonecalls' she made to Oliver Hoare's home after he'd rejected her. Anyone else and she'd have received a restraining order!).

Oliver Hoare's wife used to talk about the fact that Diana would also just turn up at the house unannounced. She would then sit silently saying absolutely nothing till the wife felt pressurised into leaving the room, whereupon she could hear Diana suddenly burst into animated talk and laughter with her husband.

I must say, if it had been me I would have taken pleasure in settling down with a good book, making it clear I had absolutely no intention of going out and leaving the field clear.

EdithWeston · 21/09/2022 09:19

Divorce settlement never released officially, but believed to have been £17m lump sum, £400,000 maintenance and right to live in KP until any future remarriage, shared custody of the Princes. Also the style 'Diana, Princess of Wales' which she could use until any future remarriage

Shortandfurry301 · 21/09/2022 09:20

I find this thread very sad. I don't know where this most recent wave of hate about Diana is coming from but I heard Gyles Brandreth the other day on the radio calling her "an hysteric" and I believe he is a chum and supporter of Prince Charles.

Diana may, like many people, had some transitory mh issues, but she also had huge energy, self discipline in how she approached her work, was naturally very empathetic with the people she visited, and people forget that she was very loyal and discreet at the start of her marriage, until she found out at an incredibly young age that the whole thing had been a sham, and she was expected to pretend in public, and front of the world's media, that everything between her and Charles was fine. And her children were meant to collude in the lie too.

So she basically got burned by the establishment for not "going quietly".

I know she had affairs later on but I still think what was done to her at such a young age was very unjust. And any of us would have ended up paranoid had we been the subject of such constant and intrusive press coverage, not knowing which friends and colleagues we could trust, and the likes of Martin Bashir. It takes a strong person to withstand being followed, being sworn at by paparazzi and having cameras shoved in your face from dawn until dusk. Who wouldn't try and control the press narrative in those circumstances? And yet Diana is constantly called manipulative and not Charles, who actually paid a PR company £150,000 (if I remember correctly) to rehabilitate Camilla's image, and they did so by partially destroying Diana's.

The word "manipulative" seems to be used to describe women much more than it is men.

It almost seems fashionable to hate Diana nowadays but I was and remain a fan. She wasn't a saint. She had a massively dysfunctional upbringing for one thing. Her mother left the family home when she was eight, having married her (much older) father at eighteen and having had five children, one of whom (the baby between Diana and her brother Charles) died at 10 weeks. Her parents engaged in a bitter custody battle. Despite her privilege, Diana didn't have the most secure start in life. And she was basically subject to an arranged marriage at an extremely young age in order to produce an heir and a spare. The monarchy is ruthless when it comes to protecting its own existence.

So in answer to your qs op:

  • The Queen and the RF would have been happy if Diana had been buried privately without any media spotlight, but it was obvious from the minute she died (at the time Diana was the most photographed woman in the world) that her funeral was going to have to be public, such was the sentiment from the public. So her funeral took place at Westminster Abbey. It was not a state funeral but was televised and Diana's coffin was draped in the royal standard. 2.5 billion people watched the ceremony worldwide.
  • I don't know as the arrangements were private but I believe they had been on holiday together a week or so before she died.
  • No one knows!
  • Yes, just as Charles reached out to Harry and Meghan in his first address, I think it would have been a gesture worthy of a king to mention Diana very briefly in his speech, perhaps in an oblique way as you suggest by saying "and William will become Prince of Wales and drawing on the good work of his mother etc etc". Yes I think that would have been a graceful thing to do and I was disappointed when he didn't.

And fwiw, I don't think anyone ordered Diana's assassination. She died in a car crash.

Shortandfurry301 · 21/09/2022 09:28

Oops! Sorry op I misread your first question.

Diana was buried on a private island at her brother's estate in Althorp. I think his thinking was that she was so hounded by the press and public in her lifetime, that he wanted her to have some peace at last. Although I understood his reasons, I always thought it rather sad that, yet again, she was isolated. But perhaps the Spensers don't have a family vault like the RF? Not sure!

lickenchugget · 21/09/2022 09:28

She was divorced from the RF. In a normal family, your son’s ex-wife would be nothing more to do with you. But she was never going to go quietly.

They’ve all moved on now, but the Diana fans seem terrified she’ll be forgotten, and insist on bringing her up anytime anything happens in royal life.

She is for her sons to remember. I don’t know why she involves such hysteria in others.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 21/09/2022 09:28

Novum · 21/09/2022 09:18

Oliver Hoare's wife used to talk about the fact that Diana would also just turn up at the house unannounced. She would then sit silently saying absolutely nothing till the wife felt pressurised into leaving the room, whereupon she could hear Diana suddenly burst into animated talk and laughter with her husband.

I must say, if it had been me I would have taken pleasure in settling down with a good book, making it clear I had absolutely no intention of going out and leaving the field clear.

I think it was his wife who reported nuisance calls all hours of the day and night and they were traced back to Diana.

lickenchugget · 21/09/2022 09:29

And the idea that Charles would have to mention is his ex-wife of about 25 years in a speech to mark his mother’s death is sycophantic nonsense.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 21/09/2022 09:33

lickenchugget · 21/09/2022 09:28

She was divorced from the RF. In a normal family, your son’s ex-wife would be nothing more to do with you. But she was never going to go quietly.

They’ve all moved on now, but the Diana fans seem terrified she’ll be forgotten, and insist on bringing her up anytime anything happens in royal life.

She is for her sons to remember. I don’t know why she involves such hysteria in others.

It's because she was pretty and fashionable, honestly I believe that's all it was, otherwise princess Anne would have the same following.

BertieQueen · 21/09/2022 09:40

i find it very strange that you apparently don’t know where Diana was buried or that she had a brother etc but managed to find out other info about what she wrote in her diary? 🤔

Within seconds you could find out on google where Diana is buried and about her family.

lickenchugget · 21/09/2022 09:40

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 21/09/2022 09:33

It's because she was pretty and fashionable, honestly I believe that's all it was, otherwise princess Anne would have the same following.

I wonder how it would have panned out if she lived; I suspect the competition from the attractive young royal women would have become an issue..

Arbesque · 21/09/2022 09:43

She was an emotionally unstable woman married off at a young age to an older man who was in love with someone else.

The marriage was a disaster and almost sent her over the edge. She had affairs, including with married men, and was running around with a rich unsavoury playboy at the time of her death.

She was also hugely charismatic and attracted enormous attention and had a volatile relationship with the press.

I don't think anyone would deny that she adored her children and tried her best to give them a vaguely normal childhood.

There is absolutely no evidence that her death was anything but a tragic accident. It was, however, convenient for the royal family as she was a loose cannon. Sadly, apart from their distress for her sons, I think they found life a lot easier without her.

It was a marriage that should never have happened and one that created enormous unhappiness. A lot was learned from it and William was allowed choose his own wife regardless of class or background.

WinnieTheW0rm · 21/09/2022 09:46

lickenchugget · 21/09/2022 09:29

And the idea that Charles would have to mention is his ex-wife of about 25 years in a speech to mark his mother’s death is sycophantic nonsense.

He was married to Diana for 11 years (marriage 1981, separation 1992 - legal completion of divorce 1996, so 15 years if you include all time up to the decree absolute)

He married to Camilla in 2005, so 17 years and counting

LastWordsOfALiar · 21/09/2022 09:50

Without meaning to be horrible OP, but all of this information is plastered over the internet. I'm surprised, you're interested enough in Diana to post this thread, but didn't know she had a brother? It's readily available information on the internet.

No one knows what actually happened. It's possible it's as the media reported, it's possible something more sinister. We will never know.

My only assumption, is that her sons are both well educated and loved her dearly. If they thought Charles or the Queen had anything to do with the death, I don't think they'd have been able to lead the life they do (or did in Harry's case). It's pretty clear they think the paparazzi were to blame.

No it would be foolish for him to mention her.

Charles is a bumbling fool who is also clearly very unpleasant though. I'm glad he's King though, it's about time the monarchy is on its way out and if anyone can end it, it's Charles.

Sceptre86 · 21/09/2022 09:51

Honestly it is incredibly crass to debate whether a woman was killed by her husbands family so yabu for that. Everything else you could have googled.

lickenchugget · 21/09/2022 09:52

WinnieTheW0rm · 21/09/2022 09:46

He was married to Diana for 11 years (marriage 1981, separation 1992 - legal completion of divorce 1996, so 15 years if you include all time up to the decree absolute)

He married to Camilla in 2005, so 17 years and counting

I was referring to the number of years they have been divorced. 26 years if they divorced in 1996

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 21/09/2022 09:58

lickenchugget · 21/09/2022 09:40

I wonder how it would have panned out if she lived; I suspect the competition from the attractive young royal women would have become an issue..

The Catherine/Diana dynamic would've been interesting.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 21/09/2022 10:00

I don't think anyone would deny that she adored her children and tried her best to give them a vaguely normal childhood

There was absolutely nothing normal about their childhood apart from the odd Macdonald's now and again. She didn't have a normal childhood so you can guarantee the future King definitely didn't!

Butchyrestingface · 21/09/2022 10:00

For any of you who don't know, she died in a car accident in Paris on August 31rd 1997.

Now I feel old. So very, very old. Grin

x2boys · 21/09/2022 10:05

lickenchugget · 21/09/2022 09:40

I wonder how it would have panned out if she lived; I suspect the competition from the attractive young royal women would have become an issue..

She would have been 60 now ,maybe she would have matured by now and be happy to let her sons and their wives get on with it ,she might have remarried and had more children
Her position in the Royal family would have been an unusual one because she would still have been the mother and grandmother to the future King/s

Mummyoflittledragon · 21/09/2022 10:16

Choopi · 21/09/2022 09:05

I'm too young to know much about Diana or understand the fawning some people do but just on the 'she had no bolt hole'. Did she not have any money of her own to buy a home is that why she would have to rely on someone else to house her? Was she forced to live in a house in London with no privacy? Like not allowed to sell it and buy one that did have privacy?

I would have presumed when you divorced a Prince you get a pretty nice settlement but clearly that wasn't the case if she couldn't even house her children in an appropriate way that provided them with privacy?

I thought Diana left Kensington Palace for a while to live in a London house and returned to KP later and it was during this time she sought to live at Althrop. Posters think not. I cannot find reference to it online.

She had a very good settlement, around 22 million.

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