Modern Britain

[theworldhas]

from today’s Guardian newspaper:

”Nearly 11 million people are now behind on their bills while more than 5 million have gone without food, according to new research that reveals Britons are skipping meals “just to keep the lights on”.

The figures, based on an Opinium survey of 2,000 UK adults in August, found 5.6 million have gone without food in the past three months as a result of the cost of living crisis.

This included skipping meals, eating once a day or not eating at all on some days. Nearly 8 million people had sold a personal or household item to help cover bills.”

Shocking stuff in modern Britain. Inequality and poverty has skyrocketed the past ten years. These stats ought to be the headline and front page on every British newspaper from now until the next election.

I don’t think I fully understand how from a sample
of 2000 people they can know 5.6million people went without food. Any statisticians able to explain. Do they take the results from the 2000 then multiply each answer group by the Uk population?

Moving on from a pp who seems to be taking it badly - if a survey is linked it’s natural people will question it. The Guardian has form for this as I found out during the pandemic - I always question now as a result and turn to other sources which I mentioned below:

It’s a useful skill anyway given the power of the media - one our dc could stand to gain so they’re not so emotionally drawn in to clickbait so easily.

Have some people here never come across the concept of a sample in statistics. You can likely go and read about how the sample was selected if you cared to

Absolutely well put. The ignorance of some posters on this thread beggars belief

The Conservatives offer neolibralism though and how is that better?

Absolutely well put. The ignorance of some posters on this thread beggars belief

Quite. One thing I've noticed is more security tags being placed on food items, and we live in a well-off area but not without people in poverty (who are often disregarded because of being in a generally better off area). That indicates to me that theft has increased, and people stealing food indicates an increase in poverty and/or associated issues. There are also several food banks in the area and there were none, zero, fifteen years ago when we moved here.

What "other sources" have you mentioned below?

They are falling through the cracks.

Just saying that the supermarket is full doesn't mean that people aren't behind on their bills or not buying enough food for themselves.

If you scroll back you’ll see I’ve mentioned it twice already.

More or Less - a great programme which analyses headlines like this. It was brilliant during the pandemic as it got away from the heightened headlines. I’m listening again and they’ll look at stuff like this.

The media loves any emotional reaction, clicks which mean £. Anything which counters that rationally I’m all for.

More or Less is a good programme.
It hasn't produced any data or analysis on the issue covered by the Opinium poll though - more about general methodology stats etc
Wouldn't discount Opinium completely solely on grounds of (some) paid participation - methodology may take that into account - not clear

They only assess headlines so if this is recent they may well do but they have to produce the programme on the back of it so a slight delay

Not sure about methodology to correct sample opting in due to rewards. Maybe someone in that specific area might know more though

I was going to reply to you, tongue in cheek, thats its down to their love of junk food & starring at their 80in LED TV's.

But a more serious poster beat me to it.

Benefit increases, inc working ones, increased by 3%, inflation is 10% and the energy price has doubled, so it doesn't take too much imagination to realise poverty will also increase.

R4's More or Less looked at these child poverty claims from both BJ and Starmer and Starmers claim of 600k more children in absolute poverty, even trying to get the figure lower by changing the comparable dates resulted in 500k more children in ab poverty.

Johnson clearly lied when he said numbers had fallen, though the LSE spokeswoman was more diplomatic.

So whilst you call the Guardian "click bait" they are correct by your own measure.

It seems to me that click bait is anything you don’t want to hear.

You might have a point if that was linked by op but since it’s another survey entirely it’s irrelevant

Like the programme each headline is assessed individually.

The Guardian is a rag just at the other end of the spectrum. I get why some posters love it on here but it’s emotive provocation most of the time. I used to rate it but they hammed up the doom for the pandemic it made me switch off and turn to rational programmes on R4 instead.

Re not wanting to hear something I’d say the opposite is true - if you do want to hear it you will lap it up and surround yourself with more of the same. No great shakes to be proud of

Trouble is people disappear down rabbit holes if they only read what aligns with their thinking. Even if you don’t care at least arm the dc to ask questions and analyse the media and how it works

No, as other posters have said, the people pushing trolleys full of food, or frequenting more expensive supermarkets are probably not experiencing poverty.

Poverty in this country tends to be hidden, and often hidden in plain sight.
I know several families where one member earns a reasonable salary, but the money goes nowhere, because they are supporting several family members who cannot find work. I also know of older people who go to bed incredibly early because they cannot afford to heat their homes adequately.

There are others who sofa surf or rely on friends to help them out, and, coming from an area where there are no local NHS dentists, the division between the richer and poorer is becoming even more obvious.

What is even more worrying is that, in my area at least, it is services that help those most in need that are suffering. Our local Citizens' Advice Bureaux has closed, there are fewer food banks, community groups for people with mental health problems or disabilities (groups who are generally poorer and more disadvantaged than most) have disbanded, rents have soared, driven in part by escalating inflation and other costs.

Poverty in the UK is very real.

I was just answering your point that in order to get a more balanced POV, various sources need to be listened too, the source you say is reliable etc & backs up the OP.

However, you re correct, some people will only listen to stuff that backs up their own politics or narrow experience.

Many studies point to a rise in poverty.

Did nobody on this thread watch Dispatches last night?

To be clear I am only raising questions re this survey as it is specifically linked by the op.

My main issue is the sample through opt in and rewards, if there is a correction before extrapolating figures then I’m up for hearing about it.

There are many figures that may well stand up - measures that might be more useful, I’m fine with more robust ways to look at it.

That's the Guardian it's not the reality I see when shopping .

Trouble is people disappear down rabbit holes if they only read what aligns with their thinking

Indeed.

Because people who are out of cash won't be out shopping much will they ?

What was on dispatches last night? UK officially in recession, and a 0.5 percent interest rate hike plus devalued pound - it'll hit the middle classes soon.

Yes…because the poorest people aren’t out shopping, are they? That’s the point.

Personally I mostly listen to economists and aforementioned programme. They are selected by R4 or Times radio - not by me. It’s a good way to avoid only hearing what you already feel.

I’ve disconnected from headlines across the board left to right. I wouldn’t get rid of The Guardian but it occupies a different position to what it once did - I see it more like any online press grabbing attention just with their agenda instead

Still I’d keep it to balance the other end just not rely on it, respond to it but always seek out more robust views

Imo the selection of the media you engage with should be a conscious decision with a - does this stop me just hearing my view back

Obviously not everyone does which is why you get such extremes on SM these days and it filters into rl