Modern Britain

[theworldhas]

from today’s Guardian newspaper:

”Nearly 11 million people are now behind on their bills while more than 5 million have gone without food, according to new research that reveals Britons are skipping meals “just to keep the lights on”.

The figures, based on an Opinium survey of 2,000 UK adults in August, found 5.6 million have gone without food in the past three months as a result of the cost of living crisis.

This included skipping meals, eating once a day or not eating at all on some days. Nearly 8 million people had sold a personal or household item to help cover bills.”

Shocking stuff in modern Britain. Inequality and poverty has skyrocketed the past ten years. These stats ought to be the headline and front page on every British newspaper from now until the next election.

I'm no statistician but how do they extrapolate 5.6 million from a survey of 2000?

What odd replies, 5 million across a population of 67 million skipping meals isnt going to show up as starving people walking around waitrose with one discounted item in their trolley.

You also cant see what bills someone hasnt paid by looking at them.

Shocking stats although a small survey

And in the Guardian. The newspaper which would mever say anything positive any conservative government, and writes stories to try to achieve that.

I work in welfare rights and coach clients in financial capability. Every working day I deal with people who are really, genuinely poor because the benefits they rely on haven't kept pace with inflation.

When it comes to financial capability, in most cases I'm running out of suggestions for how people can cut their outgoings. Energy, water and council tax, even when they only have to pay 20% of the total bill, is leaving them without enough to live on.

Rents have risen massively here and the amount the government pays towards housing costs has been frozen for three years. The maximum that they will pay for a family that needs a 3-bed house is £1,200 a month in this area. The median rent for a 3-bed is almost £2k a month. It's virtually impossible to find a property to rent in the private sector at the level that is paid, so families have to use the money that is intended to cover living costs on rent, or risk becoming homeless.

Families with adults in work are a little better off, but not always by much. On universal credit, once they're earning enough to pay tax and NI, earning an extra £100 a month only leaves them about £32 better off after deductions and the reduction in UC.

Anyone who thinks poverty isn't a thing in modern Britain is, at best, naive.

I only work with working-age people, but it's just as bad for pensioners who only has the basic state pensions. My MIL is now spending 30% of her income on energy.

That’s not necessarily true. My point was that storing fat can be very positive in lean times. Im
bust burning off my fat stores at the moment and I’ve never felt better. One meal a day is a diet plan. People shouldn’t be quite so shocked by it. We overeat in this country as standard.

Well most people in this country could do with cutting down on food and energy consumption. I do get though that this isn't necessarily hitting in the right way at present. The fact remains though, reduction in conspicuous consumption has been obviously the way to go for a long time but we have ignored it.

Perhaps if someone would post a link to a graph that shows how poverty, inequality or going without meals has varied over the last say 20 years, we would have some actual facts on which to base a discussion.

The facts in the OP are meaningless in isolation and sound like some random pegs a journalist has erected to hang a polemic against the government on. (I haven't read the article, but if it contained such context, I assume the OP would have mentioned it.)

I wouldn't be surprised if these things are worse than usual at the moment, but for anyone interested in having a rational discussion, as opposed to a party-political rant, there's nothing here to base that on.

I know a lot of people, myself included, who will do a regular treat shop in MnS when they’re finances are stretched and they can’t afford to eat out as often.

We went to MnS last week but we know longer run two freezers as we can’t afford to buy the extra and our food cupboard, which also used to be full, is now pretty bare since we’ve focused our shopping on what we need not what we want.

l had a period on benefits when I couldn’t work due to illness and was scrapping change together to afford food. I’m now married and despite having a substantial childcare bill having two incomes makes a huge difference to what being poor means to me.

Shocked by the posters who are choosing not to believe the statistics on the basis of M&S “heaving with shoppers” 😣

For example,

5.6 million have gone without food in the past three months as a result of the cost of living crisis

The "cost of living crisis" is more a political and journalistic concept than a well-defined statistical one, so it undermines the credibility of the sentence. A much better way to show something different is going on would be to say what the answer to the same survey question showed 5, 10 and 15 years ago.

I do actually participate in a survey that asks me hundreds of questions about my life every year, and tracks the changes. But I'm not sure how or where the data is published. If anyone wants to route around the "Understanding Society" web site and dig out any report or data relating to the issues the OP is concerned about, I would find those totally credible.

I'm trying to see the other side of the argument because I genuinely do not see the kind of poverty the survey indicates.

There is a difference in our town between now and pre-covid. in 2016-18 we had four tattoo parlours for a town of 20,000. There were 7 or 8 nail bars. Now we are down to one of each. There are fewer chain restaurants. Some independents are just opening up.

There are fewer mobile phone shops but retail of products rather than services has generally moved online.

I go into London weekly and see fewer homeless people, which I hope is a result of more people getting practical help during covid.

My view is from the south. Perhaps the north/south divide prevails.

I think that's bit too small participant pool.

Also, ehile we absolutely cannot deny it is shote and there is massive issue, I am signed up to .gov and they recently released something I didn't even get invite to. Opiniolum gives rewards (.gov too) and many people on them are there because they are looking to bring in the pennies so imho the surveys are skewed a bit. So I am taking them with pinch of salt when it comes to these numbers.

Again, that doesn't mean that all is fine and dandy. It certainly is not!

It's hardly rocket science to work out that the people who are in the shops are the ones who have the money (either always, or on a particular occasion) to buy stuff.

Or are the impoverished meant to wander the aisles at M&S in rags, carrying empty shopping baskets and staring longingly at thick-cut chips in goose fat, purely so that MNers can gauge the state of the nation?

Those of you who are buying food will know that the price of it has vastly increased recently. Since the poor spend a larger proportion of their income on food than the wealthy, it is probably not unreasonable to suggest that M&S shoppers will be less impacted than others.

To say this rise in prices is having no effect on poverty is wilful disregard.

@Getoff
www.jrf.org.uk/data/overall-uk-poverty-rates#:~:text=Children%20have%20had%20the%20highest,31%25%20in%202019%2F20.
www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/poverty-rate

Its a difficult one though, as Govts are known to change the criteria of poverty.

That’s a good way to sum up the crisis. The Guardian is woeful at interpreting information without heavy political bias and agenda. It became more obvious during the pandemic and undermines the journalism

‘Facts are sacred’ 😂🤣😅

Of course you are not going to see the poor at the airport or in M&S - or any supermarket much. They don’t go to those places. The poor are invisible. My DD cooks and volunteers at a community kitchen in London, where food is provided for free - there are people in really desperate circumstances.

As well as the posters saying that THEY don’t see this poverty around them…well it obviously depends on where you live and work. If you’re commuting into the City every day from an affluent southern town, surrounded by smartly dressed colleagues in a professional environment, nipping out to Nero and Pret for lunch, dropping into Waitrose on your way home etc, clearly you won’t come across any signs of poverty (does Waitrose even have a food donation point?).

Its a difficult one though, as Govts are known to change the criteria of poverty.

This. Early in the thread, someone referred to being able to eat out less often. That's hardly an indicator of poverty. I feed myself & DS very well on £45 a week. Plenty of fresh fruit and veg, protein, healthy carbs.

But we don't eat out at all because one meal out would significantly increase our food bill. That is not an indicator of poverty. I don't think I ate out at all growing up. Maybe some chips on the seafront in summer but never in a restaurant. We weren't poor.

People's definition of poor varies wildly.

That is a good source. I'm happy for relative poverty to be the measure. Unfortunately the data only seems to go up to the start of Covid. This seems to be what they have to say, with regard to changes, at that time.

Children have had the highest poverty rates throughout the last 25 years. Twenty five years ago, a third of children lived in poverty. This fell to 28% by 2004/05 and reached its lowest level of 27% in 2010/11 to 2013/14. Since then, child poverty has been rising, reaching 31% in 2019/20.

After the pensioner poverty rate fell dramatically from around 28% and 29% in the mid to late 1990s to 13% in 2012/13 (driven by increasing income from private pensions and increases in benefits), it has edged up ever since and now stands at 18% in the latest data.

Neither of these suggest dramatic differences from the past, but we really need two more years data.

"The depths that fat shamers will stoop to never fails to shock me. You are aware that poverty and obesity are closely linked?"

Vegetables are far cheaper than a Big Mac.

"the level of education that would help them address these obstacles?"

I was not taught to boil a cabbage at school

"Tory Britain, race to the bottom."

Labour - let people work hard to pay for people who do not bother to get educated and have kids they cannot afford to look after and do nothing to help themselves

Everyone can get a good education in this country

I have a guy working for me whose family came from Afghan in the 80s as the Taliban were looking to kill the father because he was an educated doctor

None of them couyld speak a word of English when they arrived.

The father learned English and was a surgeon who recently retired.

His son who works for me is a director who is earning in excess of 120K

They have no time for anyone who says it is not possible to have a goad life in the Uk

They don't even have Marks and Spencer's in poor neighbourhoods.

There are places that are 'food deserts' where the only places people can buy food within walking distance are convenience stores.

These shops sell very little fruit and veg so it's no wonder people living in these places are mostly overweight.

All you have to do is look at food bank numbers to know that people are going hungry.

The worst won't really hit until February- April next year, once the winter's bills have gone unpaid and debts build.

I can believe the JRF figures, link above. 1% in poverty rings much more true. Rural poverty is often well hidden and harder to deal with because the support infrastructure is spread thinner.

The risk is that costs of keeping warm this winter will significantly increase that rate.

I think it's below 2% of population who lives in food deserts so that's more of a unusual circumstances imho than a common problem