Modern Britain

[theworldhas]

from today’s Guardian newspaper:

”Nearly 11 million people are now behind on their bills while more than 5 million have gone without food, according to new research that reveals Britons are skipping meals “just to keep the lights on”.

The figures, based on an Opinium survey of 2,000 UK adults in August, found 5.6 million have gone without food in the past three months as a result of the cost of living crisis.

This included skipping meals, eating once a day or not eating at all on some days. Nearly 8 million people had sold a personal or household item to help cover bills.”

Shocking stuff in modern Britain. Inequality and poverty has skyrocketed the past ten years. These stats ought to be the headline and front page on every British newspaper from now until the next election.

My local church has had a shower installed in the church hall so that people can get washed. The people who use it don't even have a decent pair of shoes much less a fucking expensive car.
You've got no idea how desperately poor some people are. You don't see children coming to the soup kitchens over the moon that they're going to have hot mince and dumplings for dinner. You don't see men in their 50s delighted that there's some clean undies and socks to put on after their shower.

You don't see the 18 year old care leaver crying because despite going through their budget there's only £2 to live on after the rent, council tax and fuel has been deducted from their universal credit.

You don't see a woman in her 60s jumping off the bridge because her benefit has been stopped and she's still 6 months away from getting her state pension. No. You don't want to know that people actually die from this. Where I live we have people patrolling the bridges to stop others from jumping off.

You see nothing because you want poor people to suffer. You want to believe they've brought it on themselves.

Thanks. But without the background data it seems pretty useless.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I understand that they probably found 8% of the 2000 surveyed had gone hungry and scaled that up to the UK population but we've no idea where these stats have come from.

My personal feeling is that 8% seems low.

@Fairyliz You missed out Sky TV and fags too! 🙄

There is massive income inequality in the U.K.

The 10% of the population on the lowest income in the U.K. have a much lower standard of living than in the average developed country. Ireland lowest 10% are 64% better off.

“The result is that while high-earners in US & UK continue to be very comfortably well off, the poorest in those same societies — perhaps in the very next neighbourhood — are scraping by with living standards that the poor in much less wealthy countries would consider rough.”

And that’s not the Guardian it’s from the Financial Times

www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945

Fucking hell, what an embarrassment this thread is. Full baskets in M&S so no poverty. What do think people who are struggling are likely to do - go to M&S and walk around with an empty basket to make themselves visible to you?

And as for "I've never been polled so polls are invalid". Christ. I honestly didn't realise people could be so thick.

I doubt whether CV, then the war in Ukraine and rising inflation has improved matters.

Sunak increased working and non working benefits by 3% when inflation was around 9%, also removed triple lock.

3 or 4% increase in child poverty is actually huge, thats 100s of '000s of additional kids in poverty.

Its tricky to get up to date data, things take a while to work through.

No one is saying they are invalid but they are skewed when they are on sites which are usually very much recommended to people looking to make extra cash.
People who don't have money issues usually don't fancy spending hours clicking on surveys.

No one is being thick. Just some are being proper twatty when people don't start immediately agreeing and question information (which people always should). Only thick blindly follow

They need to read the to read the thread on being poor.

You don't need a graph and nice pie chart.
Food and fuel prices are risen sharply this last year and income has not kept up, it's hardly fucking rocket science is it to imagine that the poorest will be hit hardest and unable to buy food and pay their bills is it.
But keeps the blinkers on and hope it doesn't happen to you.

The first response was "I've never been polled so I don't believe them", as if the only proper way is to ask 70 million people, so yes I'm sticking with thick.

The next was "I've never been polled and not has anyone I know" so hardly much better.

Only then was methodology raised. In any case they generally use other methods alongside paid polls and weight accordingly, and 2,000 is a plenty big enough sample if you know anything about statistics.

Yes, I agree. That thread is heartbreaking.

But those who want to deny there’s a problem or ignore the severity of it will carry on arguing about statistics, data gathering etc because it means they don’t have to reflect on the central issue here, which is poverty.

If we are talking about the same post it said they are skewed. Of course people will wonder how they get the results if they never heard of anyone being polled. What you do is you say "it's usually done by websites you sign up to" they will do, "ah ok" and then continue the conversation. Like non thick people.

It is like polling on mumsnet about if you ever bought boys shoes size4. People who don't need money are usually not spending considerable time doing random polls for pennies. Plus people often pick what applies to them.

There is still validity to them surely but saying they will have skewed results is not making people thick.

The roads are just as busy as are the airports, so quite where these destitute people are I have no idea.

Far out. Let them eat cake.

Maybe it you looked up the meaning of destitute it may explain why you don't see them at supermarkets, driving cars or using planes. Or you could wait until winter and take a wander one night around the less desirables places of your nearest city....trust me you'll see quite a few then.

HTH

Actually I think this shows the issue is a lot with terminology and why maany people may have issues believe numbers.
Some peope hear poverty, they think destitution.
Poverty and destitution are not really the same thing. Destitution is the absolute level. I think it coems from jsut general language use and the news don't often particularly help with the clarity either!

The gist of many of the posts here is that they went to a supermarket over the weekend and saw people shopping. Therefore the figures must be skewed.

Perhaps if they went to a food bank the conclusion would be different.

I don’t think you can rely on supermarket numbers when you visit but the survey isn’t great either due to being opt in for pay

Mumsnet is absolutely obsessed with food banks but I doubt very many use them, though they certainly seem to donate to them in their droves so I'm surprised they say they are empty. nearly every thread seems to mention a food bank

Maybe it's just certain posters...

Sorry, but I just don’t trust The Guardian. I know so many people who live on benefits and plead poverty (including family members). Yet, mysteriously, they all have xboxes and nice cars and flat screen TVs. Most of them are also grotesquely overweight.

🙄

I'm on 42k a year. When I started working in my sector, 42k was loads of money. Enough to live comfortably, have at least one annual holiday and never have to worry about money. I didn't earn 42k then; I earned 20k.

I worked hard and went up the ladder bit by bit. But I am finding now, that after my bills I hardly have anything left. And by that I mean my trolley, which lasts me a full week with my kids and one week on my own, was only half-full today with a lot of savers products and all supermarket brands or products on offer. And when I say products on offer, I mean I need e.g. shampoo and wouldn't normally buy x product, but the offer has brought it into the price range I can pay.

I meal plan, have a very inexpensive hobby, only ever go on big (£100 for all 3 of us) days out when it is one of the children's birthdays. I budget well.
The week I don't have my kids I live off leftovers from the week I've had them here.

And yet every time I go into the supermarket I put less and less in my trolley, but it is always more expensive than last week. My bills continue to rise. I even shower cold ffs.

I don't live in a council home or am ready for food banks just yet, but the last time I felt this poor, counted every penny and still had that much month left over at the end of the money I was a student at university, single with my first child.

There is little left for me to cut back on. I'm worried and I'm supposedly earning well. But as a single mum it doesn't go far. And if I lie awake at night thinking about how I will afford Christmas (and we don't do much, just a bigger meal and some presents), how much others feel with even less income?

But those who want to deny there’s a problem or ignore the severity of it will carry on arguing about statistics, data gathering etc because it means they don’t have to reflect on the central issue here, which is poverty.

I agree with this - very much. There is a certain sector on MN who glean everything they know from statistics and are so far out of touch with real life that I find it disturbing. It's something I have never come across in real life.

How would you know this?

I am interested in context and analysis as it’s far more reputable than opt in surveys and click bait type articles

It doesn’t get across the area I live in - which is mixed as is typical for parts of London

imo it data is interesting, others may have zero interest but that’s up to them

I helped a client fill out a benefit form today and she was saying how she must get this benefit as she felt the cold so much and would need her heating on all the time. Then proceeded to tell me how she only ever buys her shopping from M &S. i guess it is reasonable for some basics.