Impossible school situation. What do I do?

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Quite long so please bear with me.
I really don't know what to do anymore.

I have 2 kids with SEN, one sort of sleeps normally the other survives on about 2 hours of sleep a night.
In total I have 4 kids, 2 under 2.
And these 2 with SEN who are 6&9.

We cannot get to the school on time, simply because he just cannot get up in the mornings. I am shattered, he is shattered the hole house is shattered.

School are really unhelpful and are constantly on our case to improve attendance. They are aware both children are fully diagnosed with numerous conditions. The biggest one to affect them is the ADHD.

We have tried 4 different medications from CAMHs and The gp. None have worked.
When he's up at night he needs to be supervised as the possibilities are endless on what he could get up too.

I then struggle to motivate myself around the house and have to live by strict routines to function.
We used to live on the school road and was late daily, we then moved 20 minutes away and are now even more late.
School have now reduced the gate time they have to be in school by so now we are even later than before.

My child constantly falls asleep in the class room and is behind and functioning at reception age. They hate school because they can't do the work, they receive no help as there's no funding for a 1-1 and the EHCP was recently rejected! We are appealing this.
I am just lost. I have tried to move them schools but no school is willing to take them on without firm EHCP's.

I feel like the worlds shittest parent.
I'm fed up of the sarcastic comments from the teachers about persistent lateness but what am I meant to do? My child is sleeping maybe 2/3 hours max in a 24 hour period and when they evetunally fall asleep around 4-5am they then cannot get up for school.

I have tried and tried, on top of this we don't drive so have to rely on busses, if there's traffic we are late again.
The attendance for the pair of them is terrible currently below 80% because more often than not I simply cannot wake them up for school so they miss it.

I have had Respite breaks, Social workers involved trying to help which they was good but as no issue with my parenting or partners or safeguarding they've closed the case and said school need to just get on with it.

I've had portage workers trying to install good sleep patterns in for the kids which obviously doesn't work.
Physiological therapists trying to help.
I've tried so many medications and gummies but nothing.

Camhs have now said they will discharge us as there's no more help we can have.
And on top of it the SENCO in the school is useless. They put in things in place to help manage behaviour then remove them or simply send them home or out the classroom. I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall and I just don't know what to do anymore.
CAMHS have now said they think the child with the big sleeping issue will simply be one of them people who don't need much sleep.

I just feel so lonely with it all. The school they are at, is the best in the borough and very prestigious but it's just not working for them and I feel so sad that it just doesn't work for us. If your child is fine and has no SEN issue they go to school fine and enjoy it and leave with good grades.
Children with SEN seem to Fail here. On a local forum for parents of SEN kids this school came out terrible for us all.

I don't even know what the point of this post is really just need to offload and ask do you think I should try and really push again to move schools somehow? Or has anyone been in this situation and it's improved and the school have been understanding? I feel like they don't take in any of the things I am saying and simply see it as well other parents get there kids in so you can too. But my argument is I don't know anyone else with kids who have 2 hours sleep a night and are so tired they are almost comatose in the morning unable to move! Let alone get up and get dressed and out the door.

Sorry you are having such a tough time. Definitely definitely push for EHCPs though. I've heard 90% of requests are turned down at the first stage but when parents challenge the majority get an assessment. SOS SEN is a great charity with a free helpline and are great at supporting parents through the EHCP process.

I have two ASD kids with sleep problems so you have my sympathy.

Oh, and if they get into special schools would they be far enough away to get free taxi transport??

That sounds really tough. I'm sorry that the school are working to make life harder for you when they could be supportive.
I can't offer any useful advice as I don't understand the British schooling system. Are there any actual penalties for lateness? Or is it just school grumbling? If the latter I guess you just need to decide you don't care about what school say and do what's best for your family. If they need to sleep then the big picture is that they need to sleep and that's that.

Have you tried having them in bed with you? :)

Are you a SAHP? Could you potentially homeschool?

Would it be possible to consider moving the DC to a school within close walking distance to your home? It wouldn't solve the problem, but it might make it a little less stressful for you all.

I would homeschool in your situation, then they can nap when they need to. It’s not worth this.

You poor thing. That sounds so difficult. Definitely push for the EHCP. As others have said, they often get rejected the first time. Can you request a meeting with the school and a request a part-time timetable for now? Get them in from say 11-3pm. Ask for a meetin with Senco and head/deputy.

Push for ehcp

can you speak to gp to get melatonin to help with sleep

Have you asked for a referral to a sleep clinic? You can also ask for an OT assessment to look at making the house safer and maybe something life a SafeSpace bed.

Have you asked about transport?

Children’s services are fobbing you off. There doesn’t need to be concerns about your parenting for respite when there are disabilities involved. Were DC under the children with disabilities team? Have you had a carer’s assessment HomeStart may be able to support you more generally too.

I have tried to move them schools but no school is willing to take them on without firm EHCP's.

Without an EHCP, there are very limited reasons the schools can refuse to admit if there is a place. They can only refuse if DC have been permanently excluded twice within the last 2 years, or if they believe DC will have challenging behaviour and the school has a high proportion of pupils with challenging behaviour or who have been permanently excluded compared to others schools in the area and it would prejudice the provision of efficient education or use of resources.

This sounds really tough OP. You mentioned respite - do you get direct payments? If not, ask for an assessment from social services. You could then try to use these hours in the mornings to help get them up and ready.

School should be making reasonable adjustments- can you have a meeting with the head and sendco and discuss the possibility of a reduced timetable whereby they attend late/afternoons only? Even if it's temporarily while you're appealing the ehcp? It really doesn't sound like they're in a supportive school, but unfortunately you're going to need the ehcp in place to get the right provision. Is there a local sendias service you can speak to? There should be one but it is sometimes called a different name.

Its really tough, but hang in there

Taxi for the child who sleeps in a normal pattern. You can then show your commitment to your child arriving on time. Get a contract with a local firm and a consistent driver with DBS (England) or PVG (Scotland). Use the DLA money o pay for it.

Push for the EHCP for your child who does not sleep. The biggest difference to non-sleeping children is being outside as much as possible: 10-12 hours per day as a minimum. Are there any Forest school programmes near you? Swimming can also really help.

I would move them back In with me, put a stair gate on your bedroom door and leave books out for them / leave audible on all night. Then you will get more sleep. Make sure room is baby proofed.

how much money do you have? Do you work?

i pay / ask for help someone to take the other one in and make sure they are never late. You then have one problem solved. Keep the other one home for the time being. Could you homeschool for a bit to keep them tied over.

sort your head out and then work out a plan. Are the school good? Are you under the right doctors?

My ADHDer (10) cannot sleep without melatonin. It's quite a small dose for him (and you can buy it over the counter here, not in the UK). I do have to adjust so he takes less in winter and more in summer. No screens the last 30 minutes before bed (he doesn't have his own device anyway).

When he was younger it did take time to develop better sleep patterns for him. He cannot have any toys in his bedroom except soft toys (after finding him having midnight play mobil sessions - all spread out over his bed) and books (he will sneakily read between his bedtime and ours still sometimes, but eventually will conk out).

He needs blackout blinds and we have to stagger bedtimes so his brother is already asleep, otherwise they'll keep each other up, even in separate rooms.

I'm sorry school are being so unsupportive.

Melatonin.

Has to be prescribed by a paediatrician though, GPs won't prescribe.

Do you work? If not then I wonder if a drastic option like home schooling would work?

Perhaps not long term but certainly primary age could be doable for most parents. As it is he is working at reception level and not thriving at school so any degree of success would be an improvement.

I think this is where I would consider homeschooling for the non sleeping child. How miserable for all of you

Where is these children’s other parent? They have equal responsibility here.

I would repost on the SEN board.
I believe you can apply for the EHCP yourself, but you will probably get better advice not on AIBU.

It sounds like you need a new school, and the EHCP is a necessary step to achieve that.

I wouldn’t EHE. Parents often find it easier to get support when on a school’s roll. Crudely you are someone’s problem whereas if you EHE it is all too easy for professionals to sweep DC’s needs under the carpet. The LA will say you are reliving them of their duties as you are making suitable alternative arrangements.

If DC can’t attend school full time the LA have a duty to provide alternative arrangements to ensure DC get a suitable, full time education.

I wouldn’t home school as when they are at school at least you get a bit of a break.
I would push for more help and also child proof a room for the non sleeper so you can sleep (I had a non sleeper but thankfully he’s improved, still doesn’t sleep enough).
Leave out a drink and a few safe quiet activities (sticker books) and so you can sleep a couple of extra hours. It’s amazing how much better you feel for 3-4 hours sleep in a block.

You have defined the situation, and who could cope with lack of sleep, as you say.

Hopefully, a post will provide the help you need. A poster has said that the LA have a duty to provide an education which will work.

I can only suggest making sure they get a lot of exercise.

I am going to be unpopular but..
I have two with SEN - my eldest has severe complex LD and autism. He is now an adult but at that age never slept well. He was often awake at 3am and that was that. We were all shattered. However, he was on a taxi to go to his special school at 7.30 and I was at work shortly after. He might have wanted to lie in as he was tired, but I had a job I had to get to so he was out of bed, washed dressed and in the taxi. Yes, it is very, very hard but the school can't help you get your child to sleep nor can they say it's OK for them to not come in because you or they can't get up. Moving school won't solve this issue unless there is a closer school. However, from what you say, it isn't a case of being 10 mins late.

You say you need an EHCP. You are right. It will help get more support in the classroom. It will help when applying for special school. It won't help you get them to school. If they attend special school, usually they will need to get up earlier as the taxis often pick up several kids and the travel is longer unless you happen to live on the doorstep of one such school.

Melatonin can help kids with adhd and autism get to sleep. We had this for ds. We also had an anti histamine prescribed which helped a bit. I feel for you as I was often on my knees with tiredness and stress.

Whilst allowing DC to sleep in doesn’t help as you get into a vicious circle an EHCP may help the sleep if part of the reason is there are unmet needs at school making the daytime overwhelming. It can also help if school provision isn’t appropriate due to sleep issues meaning they need a bespoke timetable.

"We used to live on the school road and was late daily, we then moved 20 minutes away and are now even more late.
School have now reduced the gate time they have to be in school by so now we are even later than before"

Why did you move?

What idiot told you he's just "one of those people who don't need much sleep"? It's impossible to wake him up in the morning, and he's falling asleep in class - the poor kid is clearly exhausted!

I don't have any magic solutions at all, I just know that it's nothing like as simple as "not needing" the sleep. The school also need to start working with you, not against you (although I do find it strange that you chose to move a 20 min bus journey away, even though you were already struggling to get your kids into school.....)

My son has never slept tbh but getting up and going to school was always non-negotiable so he often went on two hours sleep. He never fell asleep in school though as he could manage on 20 hours sleep a week and still does. He obviously needs more sleep so do you think if you were really rigid about getting him up at the same time each day and keeping him awake until a reasonable bedtime he might eventually adjust? You could ask OT about a safespace so that you don't have to supervise him through the night.