Impossible school situation. What do I do?

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Quite long so please bear with me.
I really don't know what to do anymore.

I have 2 kids with SEN, one sort of sleeps normally the other survives on about 2 hours of sleep a night.
In total I have 4 kids, 2 under 2.
And these 2 with SEN who are 6&9.

We cannot get to the school on time, simply because he just cannot get up in the mornings. I am shattered, he is shattered the hole house is shattered.

School are really unhelpful and are constantly on our case to improve attendance. They are aware both children are fully diagnosed with numerous conditions. The biggest one to affect them is the ADHD.

We have tried 4 different medications from CAMHs and The gp. None have worked.
When he's up at night he needs to be supervised as the possibilities are endless on what he could get up too.

I then struggle to motivate myself around the house and have to live by strict routines to function.
We used to live on the school road and was late daily, we then moved 20 minutes away and are now even more late.
School have now reduced the gate time they have to be in school by so now we are even later than before.

My child constantly falls asleep in the class room and is behind and functioning at reception age. They hate school because they can't do the work, they receive no help as there's no funding for a 1-1 and the EHCP was recently rejected! We are appealing this.
I am just lost. I have tried to move them schools but no school is willing to take them on without firm EHCP's.

I feel like the worlds shittest parent.
I'm fed up of the sarcastic comments from the teachers about persistent lateness but what am I meant to do? My child is sleeping maybe 2/3 hours max in a 24 hour period and when they evetunally fall asleep around 4-5am they then cannot get up for school.

I have tried and tried, on top of this we don't drive so have to rely on busses, if there's traffic we are late again.
The attendance for the pair of them is terrible currently below 80% because more often than not I simply cannot wake them up for school so they miss it.

I have had Respite breaks, Social workers involved trying to help which they was good but as no issue with my parenting or partners or safeguarding they've closed the case and said school need to just get on with it.

I've had portage workers trying to install good sleep patterns in for the kids which obviously doesn't work.
Physiological therapists trying to help.
I've tried so many medications and gummies but nothing.

Camhs have now said they will discharge us as there's no more help we can have.
And on top of it the SENCO in the school is useless. They put in things in place to help manage behaviour then remove them or simply send them home or out the classroom. I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall and I just don't know what to do anymore.
CAMHS have now said they think the child with the big sleeping issue will simply be one of them people who don't need much sleep.

I just feel so lonely with it all. The school they are at, is the best in the borough and very prestigious but it's just not working for them and I feel so sad that it just doesn't work for us. If your child is fine and has no SEN issue they go to school fine and enjoy it and leave with good grades.
Children with SEN seem to Fail here. On a local forum for parents of SEN kids this school came out terrible for us all.

I don't even know what the point of this post is really just need to offload and ask do you think I should try and really push again to move schools somehow? Or has anyone been in this situation and it's improved and the school have been understanding? I feel like they don't take in any of the things I am saying and simply see it as well other parents get there kids in so you can too. But my argument is I don't know anyone else with kids who have 2 hours sleep a night and are so tired they are almost comatose in the morning unable to move! Let alone get up and get dressed and out the door.

We initiated statutory assessment for each of our children (ASD and other needs) and they both had EHCPs (the eldest had a Statement of Educational Needs before EHCPs were introduced).

Sleep was always a problem. It still is for both my sons (now in their early twenties). Hypersensitivity to noise, extreme anxiety and persistent nightmares, were among the factors that ruined their sleep (and ours as well).

We tried sleep hygiene (no electronics or TV for an hour before bed; warm baths and lavender oil, and calming stories before bed) but this was only partially successful. Melatonin was prescribed for my eldest.

Co-sleeping (resorted to out of desperation) helped in the primary years, and all three of us huddled together in one bed, until I crept out to go to work in the morning. However, this was not appropriate as the boys matured. They did, however, want me to stay with them until they went to sleep.

My eldest often fell to sleep at school, and used to be allowed to sleep for an hour in the sick bay.

I do not have answers for the sleep problems. I think sleep issues are pretty common in neurodiverse individuals. However, I would advise you to make a parental request for statutory assessment. There is information about how to do this, on the link below:

senac.co.uk/advice/how-to-request-a-statutory-assessment-of-my-childs-needs-in-school/

my daughter has ADHD and struggles to calm her mind at night so she has melatonin - did they offer you this?
I think you might find it helpful to write down their foods for the day and bedtime routine for us and maybe we can give you some tips? There might be something going on to make their sleep worse than it needs be. My son did not sleep through the night until he was 4.5 years old so I understand how sleep deprivation makes it hard to think. The NHS once sent me on a sleep course before we knew I had ADHD and they take you through what is called sleep hygiene - the course was very helpful.

I would write this what you have said here to relevant person in the council and also cc in your mp.

It needs to be highlighted that senco are often absolutely useless. They get paid more and for what!

I would possibly explore the idea of a sleep safe bed. It worked wonders for friends of ours with a son with severe autism who would only ever sleep for about 2 hours. They were all on their knees.

Do you have an OT you could discuss it with?

The problem with this is that it removes educational responsibility from the LA to you. It’s common for things to hit rock bottom in school and at home before an EHCP is put in place and any real support offered. It sounds like a special school would be the way forward or 1:1. This will offer you much needed respite and time with your younger children.

keep presenting your GP and school with the issue, the lack of sleep, your childrens difficult school engagement. Explain you’re at a critical breaking point. Don’t sugar coat the situation or be brave.

in the meantime lower your expectations in regard to time keeping, accept 9am is not going to work until you get proper external help. In the back of your mind maybe keep first break as the school start time.

Be kind to yourself, you’re in an incredibly difficult situation which all seems to hinge on you. Your wellness and mental health matters

Also you might be able to get practical help through sure start. They have helpers

My son has asd and adhd and needs melatonin and also needs to cosleep - he has separation anxiety

he is also highly sensitive to sugar and colourings so absolutely none of those or he can’t sleep

have you looked at his diet / melatonin?

www.home-start.org.uk/Pages/Category/things-we-can-help-with

x

Sorry OP I'm a bit confused, you say that they only sleep 2-3hrs max and only fall asleep 5am but then cannot wake for school? What time do they wake on a wkend day when they can be left to sleep? If they sleep longer on a sat and sun then part of the issue is timing of sleep
Also it sounds like there are days when you don't take them in at all because they would be late.....that's terrible and sending the wrong message. Take them every single day even if it means 9.30, 10.00 that they get there. better there for a shorter day at school than not at school.

Next - what are they doing in the night? Are you switching off all electronics and ensuring they cannot be used at night? You need to remove the power cable from the TV, the WiFi box, any game consoles or tablets lock away. You need to ensure that it's boring at night, to make it more palatable to them to go to sleep earlier. Lock away toys, fun stuff that stimulates. They can read a book/look at a book quietly if they aren't sleeping. Big stair gate on the stairs, nobody should be going downstairs at night. Can you remove lightbulbs in their bedrooms at night so that they can't put big bright lights on, only a low lit lamp.

No access to food at night either - our bodies sleep patterns are partly influenced by meal times and when we eat - bring dinner earlier, make sure even when they wake late they have breakfast straightaway and lunch at a normal time for a child.

Is there a dad in the picture ? Whether older two or younger two if not the same man

if so can he take to school for you so not taking all kids out in the bus and only have one to deal with as such

you don’t mention one

def don’t home school as practically impossible with babies /toddlers

learning to drive will help lots

obv lessons and car costs but v Sanity and buses to school it will help lots

meantime can you move to a closer school if room, that you can walk to

as hard as it is you need to break the sleep cycle so isn’t sleeping last 7am so can get up and ready for school

his body clock will adjust slowly

it’s very rare for melatonin not to work. What does was he on. Some children do need the highest dose

one paed I trained under always started with highest dose and cut down rather then start low and increase

As OP is in England that website isn’t relevant as it is for Northern Ireland, and the OP has already applied for an EHCP and is appealing the refusal so she doesn’t need to apply again.

Do ask for a referral to a sleep clinic, there is other medication that can be tried. They can also look for any other reasons DC isn’t sleeping such as other sleep disorders.

Sometimes schools are prestigious with good results because they ‘manage out’ any children who will impact their results and cause behaviour issues in class. Sounds like this might be happening in your case. Only you can decide if it’s worth the fight to keep them there or whether another school will be better. Worth investigating because sometimes a school doesn’t have such a good reputation because they are actually doing the hard graft of supporting all their children. Good luck

Is your partner the kids' father? I think you need to divide and conquer - one of you does overnights with the kid that won't sleep, then the other does the morning getting-ready and school run.

The kid that won't sleep may still be tired and difficult in the mornings, but at least they'll be dealing with a parent who's not completely sleep deprived.

My partner is their dad he currently has just got over cancer but suffering from side effects I am his carer. He can't do much at the moment and is practically on bed rest. The sleeping is the same on holidays, school holidays and weekends. We've tried every thing bed is always at 7. Before this we've tried putting them up at 10,9,8,6.30 does nothing. No TVs in room or tablets not that they are interested in them anyway.

The only thing he's really interested in is insects and being outside mixing mud and stuff together.

They don't eat late and don't really eat much never been ones for fizzy or sweet things etc. they are both extremely healthy. Most days their packed lunch comes back with a lot of stuff left over.

I really don't want to home school because it's important they receive the right education but also experience school and to make friends etc. it's just hard really it's been like this since they was 18 months old but the eldest is so much worse with the sleeping. We recently went on holiday for 2 weeks and they didn't stop for a second was in the sea daily etc and what not and we wasn't getting back to our hotel most nights till 11pm they still didn't settle down till 2 and was up at 5 asking are we ready to go out now.

No one will babysit either as it's to much hard work it's incredibly isolating. I managed to speak to school again yesterday and we have set up a meeting to discuss every thing and they have now said they will sort out paperwork for the EHCP again hopefully it works this time.

Just on the home education comment - there are many many opportunities for home Ed kids to make friends, even more than at school actually so don't write it off for that reason. We were at a home Ed picnic in the park this week with over 45 children. My kids played from 11-5.30. There are groups every single day from everything from forest school and nature groups, to sports, music drama and circus skills - whatever it is your child is into.

Education wise - it obviously depends what you consider to be the right education, however it doesn't sound like your children are receiving an education suitable for them at school. School will only ever cater for their age not their aptitude or ability.

I wouldn't right off home Ed just yet. If school is failing then it's another option that works. Xx

Sorry to hear about the cancer. That must have been very hard as well

are the youngest two twins or you have 2 under 2 like baby and toddler

what area are you in ? There are nannies who look after an children

Have you contacted any agencies

An you afford any paid extra help? If you can might you be able to get some specialist help in in the morning. It's sounds so relentless and exhausting for all of you.

What happens when the clocks go back? Are you then well over an hour late?
Have you any family around?

Gosh, you really do have it hard, OP. I'm sorry about your partners illness. Looking after him, two with SEND needs and two under twos sounds incredibly difficult.

I do hope that the meeting helps, and that the school will realise just how much you're dealing with and want to help with the EHCP.

And yes, see if there a sleep clinic that your son can be referred to.

As well as social care assessments for DC and you has DP had a social care assessment?

If you are appealing the EHCP refusal you/school don’t need to reapply.

Can you make his room as boring and inescapable as possible? That would at least limit you having to be awake with him, even if it doesn’t necessarily help him sleep any better. What time does he go to bed to try to sleep at night?

Are you claiming all the benefits and help you are entitled to?

Looks like there’s grants available for the safe space beds and pods.

I think he is over tired going to sleep and then immediately going into a deep sleep - and when he wakes up in a sleep cycle he becomes too awake to return to sleep. I think maybe he would benefit from a nap when he comes home from school to see if it can help him stop being over tired?

I still don't understand OP. If on holiday they were getting to sleep 2am then awake at 5am can't this happen on a school day? Sorry if this feels like interrogating you but your first post was about the issue with not managing to get to school on time /or at all, so I'm just trying to drill down to exactly what the issue is.
Im really surprised with 2 children under 2 that on holiday you weren't returning to the hotel room til 11pm? As a family you need to be practising better sleep hygiene, toddlers shouldn't be kept out and about til 11pm at night, and if that's the sort of thing you did when your 6 and 9 year olds were little it's not surprising they are poor sleepers now. If you rely heavily on toddlers sleeping in buggies no wonder they struggle to sleep in a bed in a dark, quiet room.
You still haven't answered, what exactly are they doing at night when they aren't sleeping? If they aren't watching TV/playing on screens or with toys etc, what are they doing?

Glad to hear you've got a meeting arranged. When was the ehcp declined? Are you appealing that decision or making a fresh application?