Impossible school situation. What do I do?

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Quite long so please bear with me.
I really don't know what to do anymore.

I have 2 kids with SEN, one sort of sleeps normally the other survives on about 2 hours of sleep a night.
In total I have 4 kids, 2 under 2.
And these 2 with SEN who are 6&9.

We cannot get to the school on time, simply because he just cannot get up in the mornings. I am shattered, he is shattered the hole house is shattered.

School are really unhelpful and are constantly on our case to improve attendance. They are aware both children are fully diagnosed with numerous conditions. The biggest one to affect them is the ADHD.

We have tried 4 different medications from CAMHs and The gp. None have worked.
When he's up at night he needs to be supervised as the possibilities are endless on what he could get up too.

I then struggle to motivate myself around the house and have to live by strict routines to function.
We used to live on the school road and was late daily, we then moved 20 minutes away and are now even more late.
School have now reduced the gate time they have to be in school by so now we are even later than before.

My child constantly falls asleep in the class room and is behind and functioning at reception age. They hate school because they can't do the work, they receive no help as there's no funding for a 1-1 and the EHCP was recently rejected! We are appealing this.
I am just lost. I have tried to move them schools but no school is willing to take them on without firm EHCP's.

I feel like the worlds shittest parent.
I'm fed up of the sarcastic comments from the teachers about persistent lateness but what am I meant to do? My child is sleeping maybe 2/3 hours max in a 24 hour period and when they evetunally fall asleep around 4-5am they then cannot get up for school.

I have tried and tried, on top of this we don't drive so have to rely on busses, if there's traffic we are late again.
The attendance for the pair of them is terrible currently below 80% because more often than not I simply cannot wake them up for school so they miss it.

I have had Respite breaks, Social workers involved trying to help which they was good but as no issue with my parenting or partners or safeguarding they've closed the case and said school need to just get on with it.

I've had portage workers trying to install good sleep patterns in for the kids which obviously doesn't work.
Physiological therapists trying to help.
I've tried so many medications and gummies but nothing.

Camhs have now said they will discharge us as there's no more help we can have.
And on top of it the SENCO in the school is useless. They put in things in place to help manage behaviour then remove them or simply send them home or out the classroom. I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall and I just don't know what to do anymore.
CAMHS have now said they think the child with the big sleeping issue will simply be one of them people who don't need much sleep.

I just feel so lonely with it all. The school they are at, is the best in the borough and very prestigious but it's just not working for them and I feel so sad that it just doesn't work for us. If your child is fine and has no SEN issue they go to school fine and enjoy it and leave with good grades.
Children with SEN seem to Fail here. On a local forum for parents of SEN kids this school came out terrible for us all.

I don't even know what the point of this post is really just need to offload and ask do you think I should try and really push again to move schools somehow? Or has anyone been in this situation and it's improved and the school have been understanding? I feel like they don't take in any of the things I am saying and simply see it as well other parents get there kids in so you can too. But my argument is I don't know anyone else with kids who have 2 hours sleep a night and are so tired they are almost comatose in the morning unable to move! Let alone get up and get dressed and out the door.

That sounds so so tough and it sounds like you are trying your best and your children are incredibly loved.

take a look at dr Greg Hanley. American behaviour analyst. He is doing some ground breaking stuff on sleep. X

Social services clearly should not have closed the case. Have they produced a care plan? If not, point out that they should have done a full care assessment under the Children Act 1989 and also should have done a carer's assessment and ask them to do it now. If they won't, tell them you will have to go for judicial review proceedings to enforce your own and the children's rights.

Sounds tough sorry OP

Why did you move though if you already lived on the same road as the school and couldn't manage start times even then and also don't drive? What was the plan when you moved?

Yes, it is very, very hard but the school can't help you get your child to sleep nor can they say it's OK for them to not come in because you or they can't get up.

Yes, they can. They have a statutory duty to make reasonable adjustments, and to use their best endeavours to meet OP's child's needs. There is no point in pretending to educate a child who is falling asleep. And they are entitled to authorise absence when a child is not well enough to be in school, which must include when they are absolutely exhausted.

Sorry to hear this op. It sounds really tough.

Is your child on any stimulant medication for his ADHD?

I've got SEN kids and have dealt with shot schools who think all children fit into the same box!
Put it back in the school and tell them their very welcome to come get your child up and take him to school themselves!
Believe me they will try it once just to try prove you wrong then quit and either help or ignore the lateness 🤷‍♀️

Do you work?
Are you a single parent?

If not have you thought about homeschooling?

You won’t be restricted by the school day timing and they can sleep until much later and will probably learn much more.

Then you can try and get them an EHCP so they can go to a SEND school instead of a mainstream one.
I’ve found this is much easier to do once they reach KS2/KS3.

The 2 under 2 might make homeschooling very difficult.

OP, no advice but my heart absolutely goes out to you, you’ve got an awful lot going on.

Sport, sport, sport.

I have an energetic non sleeper. He's 9. He swims in a club 6 times a week. He also scoots or bikes to school everyday. On the weekend he does running and cycling sessions as well as swimming. He goes swimming at 5am in the club.2 or 3 days.

With this completely mad schedule he is an amazing child! Calm, happy, listens, is police and HE SLEEPS!!!

When he doesn't swim or do at least an hour of something cardio outdoors, his behaviour is hard to manage and it takes a while for him to get to sleep.

Honestly OP, get him exercising. A LOT! You will see the rewards! Oh, and get him eating healthily - no sweets, fizzy drinks, chocolate, crisps. And stay in his room with him with the lights out holding his hand while.he goes to sleep. (If he starts talking I will talk for maybe 5 minutes and then explain that in X seconds I will stop talking because it's bedtime. When the seconds run out just shut your eyes and rest your head on his bed and hold his hand. Don't respond to him.) Music on while he's trying to sleep also helps.

Has a doctor ever discussed melatonin for your child? Might be worth considering trying.

How is the op supposed to home ed with 2 under 2 at home? It's so dispiriting reading this, especially about the EHCPs. It's like they're deliberately making as difficult as possible for people to get any help and hope they'll just quietly go away and give up, drop out of sight and home ed. It's appalling. I have no advice OP, but enormous sympathy.

Hi sorry didn't realise this had posted as it was coming up deleted earlier.

We had to move as the flat we was in, wasn't safe and it was becoming extremely dangerous to the point they could of been killed. They have no awareness of danger or safety. We've gone from a flat to a house with a beautiful garden which they spend a lot of time in and a trampoline etc and they play sports but still have so much bloody energy.
We've also tried melatonin and promethazine it does nothing. I've never heard of a sleep clinic no one's mentioned that before. I am trying to go through all replies and take notes and take advice. Something needs to get sorted because this is just a nightmare now.

I don't know if this is an option but if school isn't working for your family how about taking them out altogether and home educating?

Home education doesn't have to look like school, you don't need to start at 9 or do set hours etc. Children are never behind as you meet them where they are and work at a pace that makes sense to them, not a school that has to tick government boxes. Many SEN families choose this way of life as school simply isn't set up for children with additional needs. The system will continue to fail your children.

There are many ways to home educate, it's nothing like lockdown learning so don't make that comparison.

If you want to talk more I'm more than happy to point you to Facebook groups etc that will really help and you can talk to other parents in the same situation - because I promise you most definitely are not alone in our community. Message me if it could be an option xxxx

The one who doesn't sleep much are they taking stimulants? At what time is their last dose?.could they take it earlier so it doesn't affect their sleep (if that's an issue). Could they take medication to help them sleep? I know from an ADHD Forum (unfortunately not available anymore otherwise I'd have recommended it for more advice m it was brilliant) that some people took melatonin to help with sleep.

I don't have any advice about the school but I think you'll have to tackle the sleep issue.somehow..2h a night is just not sustainable (as you know yourself I know).

What does the psychiatrist say? Or the GP?

Best of luck op. I hope you find a solution..you must be exhausted!!

Cerebra sleep charity offer lots of resources and sleep advice. They specialise in neurodevelopmental issues.

Melatonin.
Take a professional into school for support to get school to make better accomodations for your children.
Can you keep a diary of food exercise and sleep plus general mood and behavior to see if there are any patterns to his sleeping and waking times. If you wake him up earlier (which will be painful for you both) can you you shift his sleep patterns so he falls asleep a bit earlier and wakes earlier?
Not sleeping is really really hard though. Hang on in there. I've worked with a child who would go without sleep for several days but with the right medication things have got much better.

I really feel for you this sounds so so hard and I've taught children who are struggling with this, it is a struggle but it can get better 🙏

Please don't homeschool you will lose any connection to the process of getting an ehcp which will unlock funding and access to other services.

Try to wipe the slate clean with the school in your mind, especially as its September and hopefully your children have new teachers. Ask for a meeting with the senco and new teacher and talk everything through about why you think this is an SEN issue not a parenting issue. Ask specifically about ehcp applications. You don't say what their sen is but push for diagnosis. I know it's really frustrating but councils do have HUGE waiting lists now for SEN services due to the covid backlog so moving schools might really set you back if you are already on any. To get anywhere with this remember that people are going to still be offering strategies you'll need to try and there will be certain behaviours that mean they may be sent out of class / home. This would be the same at any school.

It sounds really really tough but keep going! Try to get their attendance up to whatever the cut off for persistant absence is in your borough (i think its 90 something percent). Services that are overrun will try to blame things on this before helping you.

This is ridiculous advice, obviously a mainstream school aren't going to come and collect him. It's not their job and it's simply not true they will ignore the lateness, they have to record attendance and lateness and the council chooses who to fine, not the school.

You definitely need a referral to a sleep clinic. This sounds so hard for you. The sleep issue is clearly affecting your lives - maybe school will write a letter saying the effects they see? There is a lot that can be done to help sleep so please don’t despair.

Also, the extremely high energy levels could be in part due to not getting enough sleep.

With Melatonin, I found it was very much about taking it at the right time, not too early or the effect would wear off before he slept. Watching a projector of the night sky used to help. We were told to do a sensory circuit - energetic activities to wear them out, then an organising activity that they have to think about (like shape sorting or Lego) then a calming activity like a bath. Then straight into bed after the calming activity. Having said that, my son still falls asleep in front of the tv and is carried to bed. But the days of being up all night did eventually stop! ASD and probable ADHD. Good luck - it is so hard xx

In the summer holidays presumably you didnt need to wake DC for school - what time did they sleep to when left?

If he would get a few hours then, perhaps you need to work on gradually shifting his sleep cycle. Overtiredness will be making it all worse - are you trying putting him to bed much earlier? If he is going to school off 2 hours sleep try putting him to bed as soon as he gets in.

You can get safe sleep tents that a child cannot escape from so that you can sleep and your child can rest. That might help.

www.safespaces.co.uk/

And do the exercise thing. 200 bounces on the trampoline at least everyday.

Make it your priority to get the ehcp.
Jump up and down and make as much of a fuss as possible. This is your barrier to moving the child(ren) to a special school.
Do you have evidence of your child's needs?
Ed psych reports, school reports, a diagnosis? Ehcps are very easy to refuse if they cant see any evidence to back up the need for one.
If there isn't any substantial evidence then start building it up.

Regarding attendance I would ask for a meeting with the head teacher, the Senco and the attendance officer. They need to be fully aware of the difficulties you are facing and support you not berate you.
Ask them how they would be handling this situation if it was them. What would they be doing different to you? How would they get all the children to school on time every single day?
At our school I have seen the attendance officer going out and collecting the odd child for school.
On days you are really struggling to get the sleep refusing child to cooperate, can anybody help you by picking up the child that is ready to go?
Show willingness to improve the situation but highlight the fact you are not a miracle worker and this is not down to laziness or being feckless.

I wouldn't go down the home Ed route. I imagine people suggesting that might not understand the difficulties and exhaustion that comes with raising a child with a disability.
Not only do they need a solid and structured education with professionals, you also need respite and time without the children.
If you take them out of school you would be cutting yourself off from readily available resources, facilities and support.

At the end of the day nobody died because of not getting to school on time. Yes it's not great for schools records but they need to be putting a child who needs support first who needs support, and find a way to help and support you and meet you in the middle.

Push for the EHCP. Push hard.
and other schools don’t get to choose if they take them based on if they have an EHCP!
If the school has a place you can send your child there, school can’t refuse to have them! If they’re full then that’s a different story.