To worry my friend is wasting her fertility

[Friendworried]

We are 35. Up until last year she was focused on having a baby alone, having been single for 7 years and was starting to look into it and said it was definitely what she wanted.

She now has a boyfriend (he’s early 40s). He’s still married but 100% separated and they have been away together etc.

Before she met him, she was very straight forward and said at our age she’d want to move quickly and not waste time.

Its been a year and for the first 9 months, she didn’t even want to ask if they were exclusive. She’s said they’ve spoken about moving in / buying together but don’t know where and so it’s on the back burner. They both currently own but she won’t move into his because it was his home with his ex wife and says hers is too small.

She said he said if she got pregnant by accident he would ‘move to Timbuktu’. And that she’s not worried, she just wants to travel and has at least another 7 years to have kids. Overall though, she seems really happy and I know she’s wanted a boyfriend for so long. She’s recently met his parents and he’s met hers so he’s clearly somewhat serious.

It’s none of my business and I would never say anything but basically I don’t trust him. I feel like at his age and with a marriage behind him, he knows if he wants children or not and it’s not fair to waste a mid 30s woman’s time if he doesn’t want them or doesn’t want them soon.

I know AIBU but I struggled to TTC for a while and wouldn’t wish that pain on anyone, especially if she can avoid it.

This.

i get what you’re saying but is losing out on motherhood such a bad thing given what a hard and thankless task it often is…

It's hard and thankless at times, but I'm very glad I did it, and almost all my friends with older children are really enjoying the benefits now. If the OP's friend says she wants children, I wouldn't try to second-guess her by assuming "actually she probably really wants to be childfree but is suffering from false consciousness and is deluded into thinking she wants children."

Re other previous posts: yes, there is a weird MN thing about not being able to offer any unsolicited advice, even politely/tactfully. As long as you go about it in a sensitive way, I don't think there is anything wrong with starting a discussion about this. What would be wrong would be to keep pushing the issue if the friend makes it clear that she really does want to wait and is not interested in changing her mind.

I think she needs to pin him down, if she still wants children, and get a definitive answer now. Friends of mine have had children at 38, 39,40,41,42,43. Another, who still thought she had time, naturally, went into menopause at 37 (turns out it runs in her family but no one told her).

If he didn't have children in his previous marriage, he doesn't want them. He's been consistent by saying he'd bolt if she accidentally got pregnant. He's being perfectly clear.

I'd assume your friend has changed her mind and would rather have the man than a family. And I don't think it's wrong to say to your friend you assume she's changed her mind, and see what she says.

The scientific literature shows pretty clearly that
a) knowledge about fertility/age decline is not very good in most people
b) giving people more accurate information generally causes them move forward with their plans and try to TTC at earlier ages.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0015028213004998

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1701216315305855

academic.oup.com/humrep/article/28/12/3253/690352?login=false

academic.oup.com/humrep/article/28/2/385/597899?login=false

academic.oup.com/humrep/article/30/2/353/728578?login=false

How many of those 7 years was she "focussed" on having a baby? It just seems like a long time without any progress/results, which makes me wonder how serious she was about it.

I think it's fine to talk to her about it, but you do need to be careful with how you phrase things. Focus on her, her plans, her wants, etc. Try not to mention him.

It appears he made clear to her he currently (or permanently?) has no interest in procreating. So she may have changed her mind and decided she is happy as is. Her decision to make, however it turns out.

Fertility does not take a big hit after 35. That myth was built from records in 1700s when many died in their mid 30s hence the drop in births after 35. New studies show this is not the case.

I'm familiar with the studies (old and new) that you are referring to here. It is true that the "cliff edge" is closer to 40 than 35 for modern women on average. The problem is that is just the average and there is a bell curve. The OP's friend might be able to bear children naturally until her 40s, or she might already be infertile. It's hard to know without a fertility MOT of some kind, and even those only give a very rough idea. She'd be advised to crack on, if she wants to do this. Of course, it's also possible she's genuinely changed her mind! A friendly chat might clarify things a bit.

The newer studies I have read say it is minimal.

Again not what I read. The studies I read didnt talk about aby cliff edge or curve. However, why should she be advised to crack on. It is so funny that women who say they don't want children get told all the time they will change their mind and they'll regret it etc. This is the reverse and a woman changing their mind seems to not be allowed in this instance. How ironic changing minds causes people to have any concern over a woman and her body. Why have a friendly chat at all? Why is it anyone's business what she does or doesn't do? It is rude. Basically because she doesn't conform to societies norms of having children then there must be an issue. No, let her make her own decisions and it isn't anyone's place to be asking.

You sound really over involved in her life. This is entirely her choice and absolutely nothing to do with you! People don’t need you to point out their ‘mistakes’ to them. I’d be well annoyed if a good friend had such judgey opinions on my life! x

I think it is ok for a one time comment or question about it. But then leave it, you need to assume that your friend is very well aware of her body clock, most women already know this and don’t need a “helpful” friend pointing out the obvious.

And maybe she had decided she would rather have him than children. We are childless not through choice, undiagnosed so no idea if it is me or him or both of us. We still have a happy life and wouldn’t be pleased with somebody telling us to get rid of the other.

Does he have kids already?

What did he mean by the Timbuktu comment? Has she asked him whether he wants kids?

She's checking his phone ?

I cam see why you are concerned and would probably be the same in this situation, however do you plan to address it and how? The only thing I would do is to gently mention that fertility decreases as we age and she might not have as much time as she thinks she does. She sounds a bit insecure to be honest.

It seems you’re changing your tune a bit here. You started off saying you were worried your friend was wasting her fertility. Now you’re saying you don’t like her boyfriend anyway. I can’t help feeling there is something else going on here. You seem very invested in her having kids.

I don’t want children. DH and I decided this together and we are happy with our choices. I work with children and so am very good with them, therefore people tell me regularly that I’m making a huge mistake (I’m currently 36). It’s quite patronising. I’m a grown woman who is capable of making decisions. Perhaps in a different life, I’d have had children, but the way we see the world is shaped by our different experiences and relationships.

I might find myself regretting not having had children one day, but life is full of paths and choices. Sometimes you have to pick one and go with it.

Your friend is a competent human being making her own choices. There is no guarantee that having a baby on her own would be a good option for her. Becoming a lone mother isn’t for the faint hearted. This man has told her he doesn’t want kids, she has the facts. There’s no point in worrying about her, but of course be there to listen if she needs you.

If she can afford to, can she freeze her eggs? Might save her a bit
of time biologically.

Honestly, for some people 35 is already too late. I conceived easily in my early 30s but really struggled later. Even if you do conceive over 40, the rate of miscarriage is far higher. I miscarried at 7 weeks in August and I'm 40. Anyone who is mid to late 30s and thinks they have time might be living in a bit of a bubble.

I'm one of those women who had a child in my forties.... after 7 years of fertility treatments. I started earlier than you.

I think you're right that she might deeply regret this, but all you can do is let it run its course and be there for her...

@LuckySantangelo35

It depends how many DC you want and how disappointed you would be if it doesn't happen in the end.

If you start TTC at 38 you will have a 50/50 chance of achieving 2 DC. You will have a little less than 75% chance of achieving one DC.

In order to have a 90% chance of achieving 1 DC you need to start TTC by 32.

If OP's friend waits til 41 to start trying she will have a 50/50 chance of giving birth to 1 child.

Thank you
thats Very helpful

But she might not

there does seem to some unconscious bias on here that all women MUST want kids down deep down and can only really be truly happy if they have them

At the end of the day we’re all different when it comes to motherhood

some of us really want it, some of us definitely don’t and some of us are ambivalent and could take it or leave it