Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It seems people can no longer be bothered with adverbs - AIBU?

129 replies

Q2C4 · 12/09/2022 10:14

I keep seeing comments online in which people confused adjectives and adverbs. For example:
"He's done amazing to get this far."
"It's made different to other ones."
"She talks so loud!"

Can people no longer be bothered to write out the extra "ly" which is usually required to turn an adjective into an adverb? Or don't people know the difference?

YABU - English grammar is hard and teaching is patchy. Stop being pedantic.
YANBU - social media & smart phone auto correct have made people lazy and they should make the effort!

OP posts:
SuperCamp · 12/09/2022 14:43

YANBU.

Some of it might be colloquial or regional, but a lot just seems less literate.

Though maybe SM makes public more people communicating in writing where in the past they would have spoken on the phone or in person. More people with lower standards of education and literacy are seen in writing.

And shouldn’t be condemned for being so. There has always been a huge range.

VioletInsolence · 12/09/2022 14:47

I hate ‘gifted’ even though it’s a proper word! No one used to say it….I suppose ‘I gave him a present’ doesn’t make sense really but I will never gift anyone anything!!

SummerWinterSummerWinter · 12/09/2022 14:58

ComtesseDeSpair · 12/09/2022 14:00

But part of me feels irritated that people aren't taught how to use their own language correctly at school.

I think “their own language” is an interesting but problematic concept. Who owns a language? Who ultimately got to decide which the correct way to use it was? Language exists to communicate, among other things, our experience of ourselves and our perception of the world. On that basis, why would a young black woman from a West African background living in Hackney, a white middle aged man from Surrey, an elderly man who’s lived all his life on Orkney, a Bradford-based woman who was born and learned English in India, an American expat woman and so on, all speak and write in exactly the same way? Standard English and Received Pronunciation reflect the language of a group which has always been a minority in the UK and is even more so now.

When we talk about “correct English” what we really mean is the English which was decided as the right way to speak and write by a small subset of the population at a time when this subset were considered (and considered themselves) superior. Trainspotting, Last Exit to Brooklyn, Their Eyes Were Watching God, The Color Purple, A Clockwork Orange to name just a few are no less great novels for being written in non-standard English; indeed, it’s the fact that they’re so written which contributes to them being great novels. They represent the usage of language reflecting who we are and how we live our lives.

This is a really interesting and thought-provoking post!

I was fortunate to receive a good education, and love reading, and now find grammatical rules and spelling pretty intuitive (sometimes proof-read friends' essays etc) to the extent that I cannot help but notice 'incorrect' use.

...but I've never thought about it from this perspective before...

(I've probably now ironically made several huge mistakes that will be pointed out to me!)

mamabeeboo · 12/09/2022 15:02

YADNBU, it grates my ears when I don't hear the adverb.

I think this is due to the rise of social media comments, as things go in and out of fashion. For example "it hits different". Which is used all the time on sm, but doesn't actually make sense at all.

I also think a lot of young people don't read as much as previous generations, because there's so many other distractions (like social media, video games, tiktok dances) etc.

Finally, I have noticed that this can be an influence from American English. For example, American's say "you're doing great" , this doesn't sound right...

sophiasnail · 12/09/2022 15:02

This is my biggest pet hate! When someone on tv says "she did it perfect," the rest of the family tense up in anticipation of me yelling "ly" at the tv.

ChaToilLeam · 12/09/2022 15:08

I think it’s the influence of American English. E.g. “He did real well”

As a TEFL teacher I do teach the proper convention but let learners know there can be regional variations. They notice that anyway if they watch English language films and series.

PAFMO · 12/09/2022 15:29

SummerWinterSummerWinter · 12/09/2022 14:58

This is a really interesting and thought-provoking post!

I was fortunate to receive a good education, and love reading, and now find grammatical rules and spelling pretty intuitive (sometimes proof-read friends' essays etc) to the extent that I cannot help but notice 'incorrect' use.

...but I've never thought about it from this perspective before...

(I've probably now ironically made several huge mistakes that will be pointed out to me!)

Don't worry! Only the people who think they know everything about language do that. Those of us who are fascinated by language, where it comes from, and how it changes over time (and indeed place) don't ever pretend to know it all.
What's funny (as ever with these threads) is that the posters having the vapours over something they don't like, or consider to be wrong, are making far more mistakes themselves. (I was reading on another thread like this the other day something which I imagine is true- people complaining about other people's grammar and spelling tend to be of fairly low intelligence themselves)
One poster has at least 5 fairly serious mistakes and yet complains about others.
@ComtesseDeSpair that is an interesting post and I agree totally.

RiftGibbon · 12/09/2022 15:35

"It's so fun"
"Needs gone by Thursday"

Aaarrrggghhh!!

Rosehugger · 12/09/2022 15:37

I'd say full of A cold, not full of cold.

Rosehugger · 12/09/2022 15:39

I do think language is becoming more colloquial than it ever was

Really? I think far less. Accents and dialects are disappearing in English and language is becoming homogenised, which I think is a real shame.

evilharpy · 12/09/2022 15:39

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 12/09/2022 12:24

my pet hates are removing the preposition ‘to”

I’m gonna go Tesco later, want anything ?

and

Using “text” instead of “texted” as if it were a past participle

”I text him to tell him I’m ovulating and he didn’t even come home”

The lack of "to" drives me up the walls.

I'm going golf. Little Tarquin is going scouts and Hermione is going brownies. After that we're all going McDonalds.

I do see a lot of "needs gone" and "need it gone" on the local FB marketplace.

Rosehugger · 12/09/2022 15:43

I think social media, smart phone and mobile phone use have made people communicate in written form more than ever before and frequently expose grammatical errors, use of slang and typos. I don't care very much about people writing as they speak except where it impedes understanding.

YouLittleBeauty · 12/09/2022 15:48

Libre2 · 12/09/2022 12:08

I don’t get the issue with “full of cold” and use myself on occasion. I agree re adverbs though and do pull my DC up on them regular like!

Don't you mean regularly. Wink

IMustMakeAmends · 12/09/2022 15:56

I'd say full of the cold, but many of the other things on the thread I do say, because I'm Scottish. It's nothing to do with lack of education, lack of reading, text speak, or social media use.

Q2C4 · 12/09/2022 17:08

goldfinchonthelawn · 12/09/2022 11:11

YANBU.

The one that makes me cringe though I am starting to realise the shift is probably permanent, is people using the past tense instead of present participle.

e.g. 'it needs mended' instead of 'it needs mending' or 'it needs to be mended.'
It's so lazy and I know this is snobbish but it sounds so uneducated. I always wonder if they ever listened at school.

Oh goodness, yes! "Needs gone" is a personal bugbear of mine.

OP posts:
Q2C4 · 12/09/2022 17:11

FlaminNoraPhyllis · 12/09/2022 11:55

YABU.

What does it matter? As long as I can work out what others are saying, it is not an issue to me.

When I see it pointed out on forums etc, it just comes across as pedantic for the sake of some faux superiority.

We don't need to take it upon ourselves to school other people, nor feel any way about how they talk or write.

That's just it though - having to translate what someone has written into what they (probably) meant is unnecessarily hard work for the reader. It detracts from their key message.

OP posts:
Q2C4 · 12/09/2022 17:21

pantsofshame · 12/09/2022 12:10

YABU- language changes and as long as it can be understood what's the real harm, but I do find it irritating.

However, although I would agreed that as long as it can be understood it SHOULD make no difference (especially when used informally) I think there is a problem when children only ever hear the grammatically incorrect version. They will be expected to learn the correct version in school and are tested on grammar so it's much harder for the children who don't hear the correct usage. Plus it can become another thing that makes children for disadvantaged backgrounds stand out if they want a professional career/leadership position etc.

The one place that I think it's unforgiveable to misuse grammar is in primary schools by teaching staff. It happens in my DC school regularly (including in letters/displays) and my view is that if they think it's important to teach children to use correct grammar then they should demonstrate it consistently. don't get me started on notices in school about SAT's (not my apostrophe)

I completely agree that it's important for children to be taught correctly.

I've just got a copy of a book which was given away on a recent World Book Day. In three places it uses "where is my..." for plural items. Eg, "where's my glasses, where's my friends."

What chance do kids have if publishing houses can't get it right?

OP posts:
Q2C4 · 12/09/2022 17:25

PAFMO · 12/09/2022 13:40

@Q2C4

"people HAVE confused"

It wouldn't be a thread about grammar if the OP didn't make an error in the original post!

OP posts:
ComtesseDeSpair · 12/09/2022 17:28

Q2C4 · 12/09/2022 17:11

That's just it though - having to translate what someone has written into what they (probably) meant is unnecessarily hard work for the reader. It detracts from their key message.

Does it? Take all five of the novels I mentioned in my previous post as examples. I’m not Scottish, nor from Brooklyn, nor a poor black sharecropper living in the 1960s American South. I can still read each of those novels in their respective versions of vernacular and non-standard English and understand exactly the meaning their authors seek to convey; and also understand that the language they’re written in is a very precise part of that meaning. And I’m hardly alone: they’ve been read by millions of people, translated into numerous languages, extensively academically studied and analysed – from high school level to PhD – critically appraised by numerous people who trade in the English language professionally, and developed into screenplays for highly successful movies with cult followings. There’s no doubt as to their respective key messages. In the face of that, insisting that you cannot understand somebody’s meaning unless they use a very particular style of a language doesn’t exactly speak well of your own abilities of comprehension.

Q2C4 · 12/09/2022 17:28

Kissingfrogs25 · 12/09/2022 13:58

Gosh, I wish I had time to worry about this!

Pedantic, yes - not everyone is fortunate enough to have an outstanding education, and it is representative of their schooling.

So YABVU and very insensitive.

Why is it insensitive to ask a general question?
I do find it strange that it appears to be socially unacceptable to comment on spelling / grammar (even when it might help clarify the writer's meaning) but we don't feel so uneasy about pointing out mathematical / numerical errors.

OP posts:
Q2C4 · 12/09/2022 17:33

SuperCamp · 12/09/2022 14:43

YANBU.

Some of it might be colloquial or regional, but a lot just seems less literate.

Though maybe SM makes public more people communicating in writing where in the past they would have spoken on the phone or in person. More people with lower standards of education and literacy are seen in writing.

And shouldn’t be condemned for being so. There has always been a huge range.

Perhaps that is it. I do wonder if other countries have the same range, or whether, as a general matter, they take greater pride in their language.

OP posts:
Q2C4 · 12/09/2022 17:41

Rosehugger · 12/09/2022 15:39

I do think language is becoming more colloquial than it ever was

Really? I think far less. Accents and dialects are disappearing in English and language is becoming homogenised, which I think is a real shame.

Perhaps written language is becoming more colloquial but spoken language more homogenized? A possible effect of social media. I am sure a lot of children are picking up American accents from programs like Cocomelon.

OP posts:
listsandbudgets · 12/09/2022 17:45

Until half an hour ago, I'd have said YANBU. However, I've just been confronted with DS's English homework - relative and subordinate clauses. What exactly is the point?

The creeping death of adverbs disturbs me but I'm not sure that the inability to pick out a relative clause does in the same way - or at least not right now. Grin

CaramelTwirl · 12/09/2022 17:45

YABU . Piss off to Pedants' corner and take your condescending attitude with you.

DixonD · 12/09/2022 17:46

goldfinchonthelawn · 12/09/2022 11:11

YANBU.

The one that makes me cringe though I am starting to realise the shift is probably permanent, is people using the past tense instead of present participle.

e.g. 'it needs mended' instead of 'it needs mending' or 'it needs to be mended.'
It's so lazy and I know this is snobbish but it sounds so uneducated. I always wonder if they ever listened at school.

Oh god, I hate this too.

OP, people have spoken like this for, well, forever. I don’t think it’s going to change however much it irritates you.

Swipe left for the next trending thread