Say please

[slippe]

I have a two and a half year old..

Some of our relatives have taken to asking her to ' say please ' before they give her water / a cookie / whatever it is.

They then refuse to give her whatever item it is, until she says 'please'. Except, she doesn't really say please. They end up dangling the item and refusing to give it to her. Eventually they sometimes give in. Sometimes she screams and cries. She's quite defiant.

I personally don't withhold items from her until she ' says please '. I remind her that we say please and then I remind her we say thank you. She sometimes complies, sometimes she doesn't.

I think manners are important, but I'm not really enjoying how my relatives are doing it.

Am I too lax or are they a bit ridiculous ?

I thought if you wanted to teach a child manners you should demonstrate manners, children learn from us.

I wouldn't be happy about this either OP.

Why do so many adults think essentially treating children like crap is how to teach them to be good human beings?

It's not their business to do it. I'm surprised you don't tho

But what if they don’t? What if the two-year-old gets a bee in her bonnet about it and won’t do it? Then you’ve gone and made it a massive big deal.

Manners, like everything with young children, are best modelled consistently then gently prompted as they get older.

Absolutely this ^

And I wonder what else.

I wouldn't force it personally. Like others have said pro-social modelling works better. My daughter isn't even 2 yet & will say tankyouuuuuuu mama - didn't force her obviously she's just picked it up.

I would rather a child ask politely to have something rather than bark please/thank you and then EXPECT to get it. E.g. politely saying can I have water mummy rather than a blunt "water please".

This thread reminds of an incident I witnessed a few weeks ago where a child was playing up, the parent smacked the child and then said ‘stop being horrible!’ Oh the irony.
I personally don’t understand teaching a child ‘manners’ whilst behaving like a complete arsehole. Withholding water indeed. Sad to see that this is the norm for so many.

Witholding water from a thirsty child is cruel.

Please and thank you are abstract words. I very much doubt the toddler understands what it means even if she can say it hence the refusing to say it. And I imagine in that moment where it is being withheld and she is becoming upset, she isn't purposefully refusing more her little mind hasn't got the theory of mind to think if I do this I get this.
Please and thank you are massively overemphasised, why don't we put emphasis on helping the child develop actually functional language thag ensures their wants and needs are Met. This will reduce any behaviours stemming from frustration. Then move on the abstract when they are developmentally ready. It's ridiculous in my opinion. Also model please and thank you and she will soon begin to do it without the pressure.

Im a speech and language therapist btw.

I've often thought about this in the context of my own kids (who are now older) - adults don't say please and thank you half the time and yet it sounds perfectly polite. Like if DH is in the kitchen and I say, "oh, would you mind grabbing me a glass of water?", I'm not being rude just because I haven't used the word please! But yet, we make little kids say please as a rule. As long as the request is a polite request and not a demand, then I wouldn't get too hung up on please.

My DD had speech and language problems and it was difficult getting her to say anything interactive at this age. It didn't stop relatives behaving like this, though. She is 18 now and will most certainly mind her manners. She just wasn't developmentally ready back then and I knew it was pointless trying to force it

Exactly. I know so many (older) children who come to their mum and say ‘drink please’. I find it FAR ruder than it they’d asked ‘can I have a drink?’, even without the please.

Parroting please doesn’t mean good manners.

I wouldn't be happy if other people were trying to discipline my children. However I would very much expect a 2.5 year old to be consistently saying their please and thank yous. They're more than old enough. And if it were my child and they didn't say it of their own volition then I would withhold something from them until they said it.

And I have had two toddlers so am speaking from experience. Sorry OP- but you did ask.

Should add that wouldn't withhold water etc if thirsty. Obviously. But requests to do things etc then I think they do need to start learning at that age.

And this goes alongside modelling all the time and gentle reminders. Not instead of.

When is a child ever that thirsty or hungry that they NEED something rather than just want it. Most parents with a small child have a cup/beaker of drink readily available at all times that they don’t need to ask for. If expecting your child to wait a minute for a drink because you would like them to ask politely is resulting in them dehydrated then as a parent you have bigger problems than manners.

I read somewhere once that this also confuses children the other way, that please was almost like a command.. like if someone wants you to do something no matter what it is as long as that they say please you have to do it.

My granddaughter has just turned two and can, and is expected to, say please and thank you if she wants something. Everyone who looks after her is consistent which is the main thing. I judge the parents of kids with poor manners and really don’t care less if people on MN think that’s wrong, I just assume they are the parents of the kids with poor/no manners.

That would have annoyed me as my DD was very defiant at that age. She’s 14 now and a great teenager! I agree remind each time, but don’t withhold things at that age

Well then why the post?!? You know your own answer…..

I think it's important to teach manners. I just don't agree with the dangling method at this age or perhaps ever.

I think it's better to remind her to say please and if she doesn't, just explain ' you can have this biscuit if you ask nicely for it' and put the biscuit away. Rather than dangling it in front of her face. I remind her every single time. It's unfair to assume I don't want to teach manners because I don't dangle stuff in front of her until she says please.

This 100%

I judge the parents of kids with poor manners and really don’t care less if people on MN think that’s wrong, I just assume they are the parents of the kids with poor/no manners.

Judge away. Meanwhile I judge people who equate parroting the words please and thank you with the epitome of good manners. I judge people like that as somewhat simple and unintelligent. When kids shout things like ‘drink pleeeeaaaase’ rather than calmly asking ‘can I have a drink?’ (whether there’s an arbitrary ‘please’ tacked on the beginning or end of the sentence isn’t a big deal to me really), I imagine their parents are not the brightest sparks.

Just keep modelling the behaviour and she will get it, tell them she's a human, not a parrot.

@sjl123 - so glad to hear you say this. I'm a retired Speech and language Therapist and one of my bugbears when working was watching parents or teachers demanding their toddlers say please or thankyou when they barely had a handful of words in their vocabulary.

My DC still became polite well mannered kids even without constant demands for please and thankyou. It's funny because there used to be a joke in my team at work that you could tell that a toddler had a parent who was a SLT by their advanced language but lack of constant pleases and thankyous 😁