Say please

[slippe]

I have a two and a half year old..

Some of our relatives have taken to asking her to ' say please ' before they give her water / a cookie / whatever it is.

They then refuse to give her whatever item it is, until she says 'please'. Except, she doesn't really say please. They end up dangling the item and refusing to give it to her. Eventually they sometimes give in. Sometimes she screams and cries. She's quite defiant.

I personally don't withhold items from her until she ' says please '. I remind her that we say please and then I remind her we say thank you. She sometimes complies, sometimes she doesn't.

I think manners are important, but I'm not really enjoying how my relatives are doing it.

Am I too lax or are they a bit ridiculous ?

Small people don't learn good manners from big people with bad manners.

As @Mxyzptlk observed: - Would the relatives behave like that towards an adult?
Neither does teasing & dominating behaviour imbue people with the will to comply.

Quite so.
And just because she's only 2, doesn't mean she doesn't understand power struggles. I'd be "defiant" too, if OP's relatives did it to me.

Your 2 yr old is learning one important lesson here, different people will expect different things from her. And are different levels of annoying Just let them crack on with their way which will help temper all the things you over and undercook with her.

its hardly psychologically damaging.

She isn't "just being defiant" though.

She only gets defiant after she's been treated like a performing seal, & she's objecting to being teased by having the thing she wants dangled in front of her & snatched away.
Just because she doesn't understand words like 'domineering', & 'unjustified taunting' doesn't mean she doesn't understand the feelings those concepts induce.

She'll say 'please' when people ask her to nicely, consistently. & she makes the connection with being rewarded - not just with the thing she wants/needs. but with positive feedback.

None of what the relatives are doing is positive reinforcement.

Having the language to ask for a drink and having the social development to understand the concept of "manners" are two totally different things that come at different stages in human development.

Learning not to taunt a 2 year old should be second nature at the age of adulthood.

I think you're probably very right there.

You are the parent. If you don’t like what they are doing, tell them to stop.

I don't think I ever asked my children to say please and thank you.

S1 was 12 months old when he said his first word, which was "ta" - copying what I would say to H when he brought me a cup of tea. At this point we realised that though we often said thank you to him, we hardly ever said please; so we started consciously doing that.

S2's first word was also ta!

They're 19 and 22 now. Please and thank you are automatic in our household. It just happens.

We used to say please and thank you but give them the drink/toy/whatever at the same time so my daughter woukd pass me her cup and say drink I would say drink please while getting it and returned to her with the words thank you she mimicked it after awhile but we also did the ball game rolling the ball back and forth saying please and thank you

Never force manners only model them

They need to model it, not force it- she’s only two!

@slippe So you'd withhold water from a two and a half year old, unless they Said please ?

Absolutely. This is the age where these things stick, to be blunt. My child had please & thank you deeply ingrained by 2 & a half

She's being raised bilingually. I would say her language skills are average at the moment. She's not advanced. She says some phrases and sentences, but you can't really converse with her if that makes sense ? She doesn't really respond to stuff that much. She just tells you what she wants. That's also I think why she doesn't always say please.

For example, the only question / conversation she responds to is if you say to her ' do you want to go to the playground / supermarket etc ? And she will respond with ' hooraaay ' or if I say, do you want to go to nursery, she will say ' no ' . But if I said, ' I love you' she never says ' me too ' or anything. She also still replies to things just by whinging, if she doesn't want to do them. So for example : we will now dry your hair, cue massive whinge / cry. She has started to day ' don't do that ' when you're doing something she doesn't like.. brushing hair etc.. so it's a mixed thing. She is good at telling you what she wants, but not so much at responding. Which is probably also why she doesn't always say the please part. But she does say it quite frequently. She probably says thank you a bit more often than please.

We do mirror what we would like her to do indeed.

Children copy adults.

The best way to encourage her to use the word please when asking is to be saying it yourselves every single time.

Are the relatives saying "please say please"? I bet they aren't.

Their principle is good - it should be pretty automatic that its said, but at 2.5 it's too young to enforce the way they are.

@slippe I don't like it personally

Will you like it if your child grows up to be ignorant & rude to everyone they meet? I mean this gently but if you don't teach children basic manners & how to behave decently around others, then they'll grow up believing they can treat others however they wish. Consistency is key.

Can you imagine how rude an adult would be if they only said please & thank you 'sometimes' - All because their parent "didn't like it, personally"

Omg she is two and a half years old !

She says it 70 percent of the time. She will learn, without dangling. It will be fine !

When I said I didn't like it personally, I meant the dangling stuff in front of her if she doesn't say it. I think there are other ways to teach kids how to say please and thank you.

I hate it too. It's right up there with 'WHAT DO YOU SAY?????' that people bark at their children (to encourage them to say thank you,) when someone gives them something. They usually say it before the item has reached the child's hand, and before they even get a bloody chance to say thank you. It's so rude and patronising.

When will you make her do it? Ypure digging in because you dont like the relatives behaviour. You could avoid her upset if you just made her say it the last 30% of the time.

A two and a half year old is definitely a baby, she is not independent in any way.
And if you hold back a necessary item to require a particular statement or action - you're demonstrating your power.

'You want a biscuit, little girl? Kiss Uncle Dodgy first. That's right! What else would you like?'

Modelling works well with younger children.
Older children can be reminded if they forget. It's not just wording, it's tone too and that's the bit I tend to have to model every now and then. The feedback from school/ extra curriculars is that they are polite and well behaved.

Taunting a child still at an early stage of piecing language and social skills together is not a kind way of teaching.

You want a biscuit, little girl? Kiss Uncle Dodgy first. That's right! What else would you like?'

who knew well meaning family members were partly responsible for Uncle Dodgy’s depravity?

Bit of both. If she’s capable of saying please, and seems to grasp what it means, then it sounds like you should be encouraging her to say it more. ‘DD say thank you to nana for your biscuit’ etc.

But for water, no, withholding a drink is a bit mad. A treat maybe.

Who said anything about kissing ‘dodgy’ uncles?

Utterly ridiculous with a two year old.

I'm strict with my four year old, she doesn't get anything without asking politely, but my two year old just gets big praise when she does say please or thank you.

Besides, as someone else above said, there's far more to manners than please and thank you - I'd far rather a polite "can I have some water?" than a whiny "water pleeeease".