"I could not be funded by a man" - Really?

[aokii]

I have noticed that this line, " I could not be funded by a man" is often trotted out on here. Frequently, it is directed at SAHMs.

I take issue with this for two reasons -

1. Unless you are in the type of marriage where you have totally separate funds, you are inevitably being "funded by a man" to a greater or lesser extent anyway - particularly if you are the lower earner or you work part-time.

2. Unlike in families where there are two working parents, a family with a SAHM is not going to be paying childcare costs. So although the SAHM is obviously not doing paid work, her role is still a direct and significant saving.

No doubt people will come on now and talk about "financial vulnerability," re- SAHMs and this is a fair point. However, it is far from a given that SAHMs are any more financially vulnerable than the next woman. Nobody should ever just assume this.

I'm aware that there will be many women who earn more than their husbands and have separate finances. There will be couples who both work flexibly around each other and will argue a SAHP would not be a saving for them as they don't need to use childcare anyway, etc etc. But I less interested in personal anecdotes. I'm talking more generally about the vast majority of families with parents who both work and have shared finances. Could they honestly say they could maintain the same lifestyle without their DH's income coming into the household? If "no," then they are at least part-funded by a man surely?

AIBU to say that before tossing out the line, "I could not be funded by a man," people on here should look at themselves.

@TokidokiBarbie

The oppressed group giving their own input embracing the oppression?

Sounds about right

@Lunar270

Nope.

I havent suggested you do anything.

Personally, as a parent, I wouldn't have accepted less than 50/50 regardless of 'how much more' my oh wanted it.

Topgub - Lunar has very patiently explained his reasons and those of his wife to you for two days now. What is your actual problem?

I consider myself a feminist but I'm really sick of bossy, patronising, know it all, womensplainers. It's worse than the patriarchy because they don't shut up whereas men often know better than to be so overtly bossy these days.

Yup, they're fucking insufferable and seem oblivious/in denial that the vast majority of women don't agree with tbem. A total inability to read the room, presumably caused by the fact they preside in echo chambers like mumsnet feminist board.

Very patiently?

Oh.

Of course. I'm sorry. I forgot he's a man and therefor can't be questioned.

How silly.

They won't even accept that you don't agree with tbem. The typical response is that you're actually a feminist but just don't realise it. 😂

How very predictable.

It’s invariably said to women who have found out that they are being “funded” by a twat.

or in response to the “why bother having kids if you’re going to pay others to raise them” SAHP brigade. Who are equally annoying.

having said that I have never been “funded” by anyone and would encourage anyone, man or woman, to retain and maintain financial independence if they can because, you know, shit happens.

Yup, 90% of us silly women are wrong and just don't realise it. If only we realised how right you are. 🙄

This is hilarious 😂

Waaaaghhhh

I cant cope with hearing a view I dont like.

Make it shut up and go away

Glad you've finally had a moment of self realisation. 😂

Do you really think you're going to argue women into believing with you? In reality, you're just confirming the stereotype of the angry feminist who won't accept anybody else's views.

Could they honestly say they could maintain the same lifestyle without their DH's income coming into the household? If "no," then they are at least part-funded by a man surely?

No, I couldn't. But he certainly couldn't maintain the same lifestyle without my income coming into the household either. So it is different.

I agree it's not a decisive argument though.

@TokidokiBarbie

Yeah, it's not me who's angry and flinging out personal insults.

I dont care if anyone agrees with me or not. Nor do I need to accept anyone else's view

I like mine just fine and I won't stop discussing it because you don't like ot and don't have the self awareness to realise you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of

Most of us consider ourselves and partner a team and that supercedes any allegiance to an ism related ideology.

We know that men are more violent and that society still has some way to go in terms of equality, etc. However, when most of us see these furiously embittered women ranting on about how 'they're done with men', 'see today's society as a dystopian nightmare', etc....well, I think most of us just feel a bit sorry for them tbh.

But that's completely fine for you and if we were married, that would be great (50/50 I mean).

But that doesn't make my situation any better or worse as everyone is different (although I get you don't agree). Therefore there is no solution IMO, other than to ensure the law looks after the partner who is left more vulnerable. Currently I'm not sure it does.

I completely get where you're coming from and we absolutely need to work towards childcare being something that both parents do, not just the socialised expectations that have been around since year dot. That includes everything you've said about jobs, pay etc.

But I genuinely cannot answer whether my wife's ambitions were borne from the patriarchy or whatever. From my own experience, it's been a privilege (cheesy I know) to raise my kids and to do as much as been possible. It's not easy but it's been far more rewarding than my career, which in itself has been more than I could've dreamed of. As such I can completely understand why women (or anyone) would prioritise childcare over a career.

@Lunar270

such I can completely understand why women (or anyone) would prioritise childcare over a career.

Not enough to actually do it though.

Especially not when you factor in the 'logic' of earnings.

But hey, I appreciate you actually reading what I've said

such I can completely understand why women (or anyone) would prioritise childcare over a career.

Not enough to actually do it though.

Especially not when you factor in the 'logic' of earnings.

What is wrong with you Topgub? You defy any definition of reason.

@Topgub

But it's changing, albeit slowly. I appreciate too slowly for you though.

I know far more men nowadays that are working PT with their wives so they can childcare 50/50. I also know some SAH dad's. Contrast this with 20 years ago and a female friend refused when her husband suggested he give up work.

You care about women earning and men doing their bloody share.

That is fine. But it's your agenda. Not whether it's fair on the other partner for one person to do the lion's share of the parenting, which is the rabbit hole you were going down.

I'm guessing you're having a difficult time on this thread. You're definitely running out of juice when you start to dissolve into disingenuous fake laughter. You're probably used to doing that in company on the feminist boards. Perhaps you could call some of them over to snigger with? It's what you seem to do best when faced with women whose choices you judge.

I do wonder though what makes you so desperately keen to be superior. It's one thing to know what's best for you but you claim you know what's best for other women...as you definitely have... Yes I think that calls for a gendered comparison. Don't behave like the worst elements of the patriarchy please. Happy to hear what works for you, not happy to hear why it should work for me.

@Lunar270

I'm not sure the stars bare out that it is changing unfortunately, and certainly research shows the pandemic has pushed things back even further. I think its estimated that the gender pay gap has been worsened by about 50 years.

You also only have to look at the extreme reactions on this thread to see how fierce the resistance is.

I think we've probably hit peak 'equality'

Which is depressing as fuck.

@Howardsbend

If you cant debate opposing views without descending into personal attacks it says a lot.

I dont care what you're happy with. If you font want to listen to my opinion, thats absolutely fine. Don't. No skin off my nose

But don't pretend that you're not threatened by it for whatever reason to the extent you are trying to silence it completely

It’s been said but that is a bad take. Civil rights isn’t for white people just like feminism isn’t for men. It’s more like black people saying they don’t support BLM.

Do they agree that Black Lives Matter? Yes. Do they support the organization itself and its goals? Not necessarily. And there are many who feel that way.

Feminism is the same. Do I care about women being equal? Yes. Do I support Feminism which has multiple definitions that no one can agree on anyway? No. My idea of equal is different than that of white women but if you don’t toe the line and have the same priorities then you’re called a handmaiden or a traitor or brainwashed by the Patriarchy. I can see the bad behavior of feminists with my own eyes.

So incredibly depressing that there are women out there who can use their values and personal preferences to reach an amicable joint decision about how the labour is split up and that this sometimes is a mother choosing to be present with her children during working hours instead of outsourcing this to a third party or working 50/50. Why on earth would anyone in their right minds do such a mindless thing? They must be up a tree. They must be fiercely resisting something great to be so stupid, right? Anyway, yeah, depressing for you that other women are having these crazy opportunities and thoughts about what's right for them and their families. Good job you know better.

@Avaynia

If feminism has multiple definitions then there are multiple kinds of feminists.

You cant then use 'feminist' as label and or insult.

Its a shame though that the slur on feminism has achieved its goal.

Although I appreciate WOC have their own issues with the idea of feminism and equality

No personal attacks from me but plenty from you.

Your assumption that women who disagree with your bossy judgementalism must be trying to hide something emotional is reminiscent of patriarchal dressing downs and dissing of women for being 'hysterical'. More and more you are revealing yourself as having internalised the patriarchal system and placed yourself on the upper level of a power imbalance.

No one is trying to silence you and in fact the unease is on your side. No one is suggesting you'd be wrong to work every second you wished to. Right for you, possibly. You are judging women who make a different decision in terms that are derisory. That is what posters have a problem with. Not you saying what's right for you. Don't confuse this with a debate where posters who stay at home with their children are telling you that you should do the same. That would be an equivalence. We are instead in this insane world where we acknowledge you can do as you please without judgement but insist on the same in return.