"I could not be funded by a man" - Really?

[aokii]

I have noticed that this line, " I could not be funded by a man" is often trotted out on here. Frequently, it is directed at SAHMs.

I take issue with this for two reasons -

1. Unless you are in the type of marriage where you have totally separate funds, you are inevitably being "funded by a man" to a greater or lesser extent anyway - particularly if you are the lower earner or you work part-time.

2. Unlike in families where there are two working parents, a family with a SAHM is not going to be paying childcare costs. So although the SAHM is obviously not doing paid work, her role is still a direct and significant saving.

No doubt people will come on now and talk about "financial vulnerability," re- SAHMs and this is a fair point. However, it is far from a given that SAHMs are any more financially vulnerable than the next woman. Nobody should ever just assume this.

I'm aware that there will be many women who earn more than their husbands and have separate finances. There will be couples who both work flexibly around each other and will argue a SAHP would not be a saving for them as they don't need to use childcare anyway, etc etc. But I less interested in personal anecdotes. I'm talking more generally about the vast majority of families with parents who both work and have shared finances. Could they honestly say they could maintain the same lifestyle without their DH's income coming into the household? If "no," then they are at least part-funded by a man surely?

AIBU to say that before tossing out the line, "I could not be funded by a man," people on here should look at themselves.

@aokii

Seriously?

You ask that without a hint of irony?

I've ended up believing in equality because I was raised to, thank god

But is there something going on with you - seriously?

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I've ended up believing in equality because I was raised to, thank god

Lucky you. I was raised by a father who paid lip service to the idea of women and careers whilst making damn sure my mother couldn't have one by insisting that we all follow him around the world whenever he got posted. Instead she did voluntary work and learnt languages.

Dh was raised by a man who values boys over girls to the point that he pushed mil to keep having babies til she got it right and produced dh (only took her 5 pregnancies). For which I think we can blame fil's grandfather who apparently was pissed that his wife never had a son so all the entailed stuff went to a distant relative and so dripped poison into his grandchildren's ears about pointless girls.

When I got my relief cover job, I told them over dinner and they said the right things to my face. As soon as if I left the room with the kids, fil asked dh if we needed money and how much should he transfer. I know whenever we talk about me going back to work full time, he thinks about what his parents will say and that factors into his goalpost moving.

But the truth is that plenty of women aren't 'endlessly drowning in domestic work and childcare'. Plenty have kids at school/college and only work a few days a week. These women seem to be conveniently left out of the discussion and anybody who mentions them is always silenced by being accused of sexism.

I'll reference again the thread I did in the last SAHM thread. It was called 'you're very lucky if you don't have to work' and had a fair few women saying how lucky they felt to have a high earning workaholic husband who enabled them working part time and enjoying life and pursuing hobbies etc.

Of course many women don't have the above experience but it seems the focus is only ever on the belaboured domestic slave and never on the MC woman living a cushy life. Let's not forget that the vast majority of women don't identify with feminism and would rather look at equality outside of a feminist lens. It's arrogant to try and force the views of a minority onto the majority of women.

@Dinosauratemydaffodils

Yes.

Lucky me.

If you let your oh move the goal posts because he cares more about what his parents think than what you want then that's on you.

@Thepeopleversuswork

So what's the solution?

This scenario that you dislike (and perhaps not without good reason) is always going to happen, along with a myriad of other variations, simply because it's often the most logical thing to do as a family unit.

Are you suggesting that a woman earning £50k and a man earning £30k would both work PT and share the daytime childcare (assuming that they don't pay for full childcare and both keep working FT)?
This might be the most idealistic situation but financially it isn't as the incomes would potentially fall to £25k and £15k respectively. A total income of £40k is unlikely to be the logical option vs £50k.

But this just neglects the instances where one parent actually wants to do all of the daytime childcare. There's no ideology that can legislate against people's choices. The only thing you can legislate is how the assets and finance are divided upon separation.

Let's not forget that the vast majority of women don't identify with feminism and would rather look at equality outside of a feminist lens. It's arrogant to try and force the views of a minority onto the majority of women.

Fuck me.

Can you imagine if anyone wrote
Let's not forget that the vast majority of white people don't identify with civil rights and would rather look at racism outside of a civil rights lens. Its arrogant to try to force the views of a minority onto he majority of white people.

We weren't talking about men who 'want a SAH wife' at that point. We were talking about the idea that some women consider it their right to be supported by a man in order to raise their children and what obligation there should be on a man to comply. My initial thinking was none. I reviewed this and stated what I considered to be the obligation for a man who would prefer not to carry the full weight of financial responsibility.
And it's all well and good discussing beforehand hand, but things change. The earner may find its more pressure than they can handle. No one owes anyone guaranteed indefinite funding.

@Lunar270

The solution is we stop raising children to fall into patriarchal and sexist traps where men earn more (even when they don't its still not them giving up work or going part time) and women 'want' to give up work

This was discussed 100 pages ago.

Lunar - there is only one solution. The Topgub "it's sexist innit" solution. This is the law.

Let's not forget that the vast majority of women don't identify with feminism and would rather look at equality outside of a feminist lens.

What do you think feminism is and how do you know that the vast majority of women don't consider themselves feminists?

Same 😂

Sorry but I'd gone past what you were discussing 100 pages ago with my example, which was considering a couple with different salaries and how to balance income vs childcare.

@Lunar270

Your last paragraph was discussing 1 parent wanting to do all the childcare

You say you wanted to do all the childcare yet you managed to cope not doing all the childcare.

Why should 1 parent get to do all the parenting?

How is thar fair?

@aokii

Is everything you say the aokii solution and The Law?

Why are you allowed to state your opinion but Im not allowed mine without being accused of some weird dictatorship ideal?

Interesting that you view a difference of opinion as a demand to change yours

Could we talk about 'childcare' for a moment?

How will the issue that nursery staff are some of the lowest paid people in the economy be addressed if families need affordable childcare?

The cleaning lady who comes to us left her job as a nursery worker because she said it was soul-destroying work and she can get £17 per hour cleaning and she can work when and as she wants (whereas there she was on just over MW). How can this be right?

When you read some of the views on this thread held by women towards childcare - ie. that it is the consolation prize of life and something women would actually never choose to do if only the silly 'huns' knew their own minds - what hope is there for childcare workers?

How many men are going to choose to go into childcare? How is this ever going to change if even mothers look down on it?

And nannies ... where I live, a lot of people have nannies from overseas - eg Filipino nannies. Some of them have their their children being looked after relatives in their home countries and they only get to see them a few times a year. How can this be right or a better solution to having a SAHM?

For all avoidance of doubt, I mean one parent doing the daytime childcare. After work and through the night is a different matter and should be 50/50. However, one parent (male or female) might just want to look after their children from 9-5. Surely it's then down to the parents to work out how this is achieved?

That doesn't answer why 1 parent should get to do the vast majority of the childcare. And why the other parent, who presumably, like you did, would also want to do most of the childcare doesn't get to.

And no one has said its not down to families to work that out. Clearly it is.

@aokii

By subsidising it.

And making those who can afford more, pay more.

They can't cope with the knowledge that it is possible to raise your children whilst also providing for them and having a career.

It's interesting that you think satm who disagree you must have this hang up. You're wrong, actually. I am completely aware that it is perfectly possible to be just as good a parent if you go out to work and for many families this is the best scenario for the women involved and the children too. So I'm afraid you can't dismiss people who disagree with you as frightened because I'm just not frightened. I have the utmost respect for women who manage a job and children (as I do men) and recognise that in some ways they are providing a model to their daughters that I am not. Everything has benefits and drawbacks, absolutely everything. That's why there isn't a one size fits all philosophy (like a woman should not choose to bring her children up full time and if she does it's essentially a choice rising out of The Patriarchy). And you are wrong to preach to other women about what you want for them and to try to tell them why their decisions are faulty. Common sense could easily tell you that you don't know the personalities involved and aren't qualified to make a mother's choices for her unless you are the individual in question.

I consider myself a feminist but I'm really sick of bossy, patronising, know it all, womensplainers. It's worse than the patriarchy because they don't shut up whereas men often know better than to be so overtly bossy these days.

Why should 1 parent get to do all the parenting? How is thar fair?

Whose doing all the parenting? Do you mean during office hours? Because children exist outside of working hours as any working parent, male or female, will tell you. What an inane suggestion.

Life isn't fair. There are perks and drawbacks to any role. Don't pretend you care about someone missing out on parenting. You care about women earning and men doing their bloody share.

@Topgub

As I mentioned previously, she wanted it more than I did and I had the higher earning potential so was a logical thing to do, for personal and financial reasons. We talked about it and WE made the decision to operate as we did.

Are you suggesting that I should've enforced 50/50 childcare and not allowed her to do what she wanted?

Well, yeah that would be a bit dodgy because it's a totally different situation.

A white person trying to dictate how racism suffered by BAME people should be framed isn't remotely the same as the oppressed group giving their own input.

A more accurate comparison would be a POC saying "you know, I'm a bit sick of this divisive cookie cutter 'black is good, white is evil' stuff. I'd rather look at equality outside of the usual conformist view with all its stereotypes and inflexible views and make my own mind up."

But modern feminists don't seem to like women who think for themselves.

@Howardsbend

Consider yourself a feminist but fall back on gendered insults.

There is a reason you're reacting so defensively to my posts. Why you keep insisting that I'm demanding women do what I say.

I haven't.

You care about women earning and men doing their bloody share.

Oooh the horror

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