To think skin colour matters WAY more than people like to admit

[daysayso]

I am involved in marketing campaigns - I won't say what because it's outing but let's say I recently worked on a campaign where the service being provided had absolutely nothing to do with race (so it wasn't makeup or hair for example).

Yet the vast majority that responded were people of colour (Same as the person featured in the ad) and it made me think how much your life chances are still dictated by your skin colour.

People like to consider race more than they like to admit even in spaces where it has nothing to do with anything, people just seem to feel more 'comfortable' with their own.

I felt for the first time in a long time my success will in part depend on my skin colour because for whatever reason the majority of white people that saw this ad decided it wasn't for them on the basis I'm someone of colour.

Please no arguments I'm looking for a mature conversation and if you find the topic sensitive you need not respond

Just looking for others experiences really

If a person is rude to me or treats me badly, I judge them on thier actions, skin colour isn't important, however the problem arises when you cannot speak out against someone when they have a different skin colour to you as you may be accused of racism

Seriously. You're being obtuse.

Racism is rife in English football. I guess Bukayo Saka didn't really receive any racist abuse after missing that penalty in the Euros. Or clubs don't receive fines when players are racially abused during matches.

We're not talking about other countries, we're talking about the UK.

Not me personally, but why should any race be made to feel they are wrong to be the colour skin they are and I actually do think this white privelege is nonsense, it's a term coined to divide people

White footballers also receive abuse for missing penalties, remember David Beckam? Again, what's it got to do with the colour of thier skin?

What 'racist terminology' has been used? Like the majority I can't keep up with the ever changing pseudo definitions.

Exactly my point, I don't understand it. I'm not offended but the average family are not mixed race.

Yes and they tried BAME. Bur I hated it as soon as it was used. I tried using it myself but it made me bristle. So I changed to people of colour (it’s not perfect and it’s american), and have settled on ethnic minorities which feels better and I feel like it’s been rubber stamped by the govt. That’s now and I’m sure it will
change again. But ethnicity minorities does have longevity in use, it never disappeared.

I thought “people of colour” was the preferred term. I can’t keep up.

Maybe while people don't here but what if they lived in Africa or Jamaica. Would they be subject to racism there

Certainly they would, and in many other countries. I know it doesn't fit the agenda but it's a fact of life that skins that stand out are treated differently all over the world or even within this country. People with perceived white skins are regularly abused in areas of predominently non-white communities in this country.

Language and terminology changes. I sometimes get mixed up too! So I do get the confusion. Mainly I think it’s to do with intent. If unsure ask, or be specific or use generic ethnic minorities

Adverts on tv are clearly not designed to appeal to white people, these days. This is due to over compensation in a silly effort to make up - presumably - for the absence of black representation in the past. Now it’s gone too far altogether in the other direction.

And yes, agreed - every flaming family has to be blended. I know no blended families nor have I ever.

So can I just check it is okay to use generic ethnic minorities as a term? And in what way? Can you give examples.

My job involves sometimes using descriptions of people, I can't say what it is as its outing, but we have to try and identify a person very often simply by the way they look. For years and years BAME was always used, for me it was never comfortable in the first place.
It can be very difficult as the person is not always present - if they are then we can ask of course, but if they are not, we have no idea of heritage etc.

I would dearly like to learn acceptable terms, as we have had many terms over the years. It is not always practical to say 'a person from a Chinese ethnic group' for example, as we would not necessarily know they are actually from China, or they could be British with Chinese heritage.

IDK I have noticed that most ads these days are more black actors than white, a lot of mixed race couples, but that hasn't stopped me thinking I'd buy something.

I do think it's an over representation in the opposite direction and suspect it will even out again over time if what you say in the OP is true.

If they are service users do you collect the information? What groupings are used?

I work in education and would say in a meeting that eg ethnic minority students did not access support. Or I would also be specific and say eg Muslim students require a quiet or prayer room.

if I’m talking to a student I don’t refer to their ethnicity. Sometimes I need to know where their education was so I’ll ask.

The report I linked to is actually useful for this.

⬆️@Festoonlights

It's all so CONFUSING!!

Do you really believe this? Firstly getting a job is one thing, being valued and respected and treated well in that job is another never mind dealing with members of the public being abusive. I've already used this example but I remember working in a shop in a predominantly white area and when they hired a black man the staff talked about it for WEEKS before he started. It was mortifying that it was even a conversation. When he started members of the local community came in to the shop and distributed racist pamphlets all over the shop floor and to customers. He certainly didn't have an edge getting the job, he was just as qualified and capable as anyone else but he had a lot of other unacceptable behaviour that he had to experience. So if you're referring to people aiming to have a diverse workforce through recruitment and selection, think about why its not already diverse enough already. Think about why that's needed in the first place in some jobs. That's privilege that white people have in the work place.

I wonder if the moment has come where we simply do not use the description of skin colour for any reason. Maybe it is better to use other features to distinguish people instead. If I think about it, why is it even necessary?

If you see that there has been an armed robbery. You will often see the police looking for a white male, 5ft 7 with a butterfly tattoo on his cheek. Or black male, 5ft 7 with a seahorse on his cheek. Maybe we just remove the need for colour altogether? It was a male, 5ft 7 with a butterfly/sea horse on his cheek. To me that is far more acceptable.

I guess the argument could be that unless you describe a person in terms of their heritage then you won't be aware of how their heritage may feel to them/affect them. Would it mean that people would stop being mindful of their unconscious bias or would it mean that the colour of skin is no longer relevant to anyone? That it doesn't matter what you skin colour is. Would it bring equality if terms and descriptions were no longer used?

It is not my place to answer what would or wouldn't benefit ethnic groups

I work in area of Justice. If I can put it generally.

But do you remember anyone using his skin colour as part of the abuse?? "That white idiot Beckham has two left feet" type of thing? I think not. Anyone can receive abuse but for the most part whiteness doesn't form part of the abuse itself in the same way other ethnicities are used to form the abuse. And that's because its not racist abuse against white people it's just standard abuse.

I think it’s ok to say male black or male white

Or Asian, south Asian or East Asian.

i always remember friends looking for me and they asked someone of they’d seen me. They described me as short, female with brown hair, brown eyes. Which I thought was ridiculous. They’d’ve found me far quicker if they said brown woman!

@Festoonlights thank you for checking btw

I think being called a black xyz and receiving racial, yes RACIAL abuse, might be a teensy, weensy indicator but knock yourself out.

You clearly have no inclination to accept it so are pointless talking to.

It actually really, really matters to me.