AIBU to refuse to meet DSIS SC?

[steppingintosprings]

My family are split down the middle with this issue and I wanted to get some outside perspective.

DSIS is mid 40s and has mental health issues which leads her to jump head first into relationships very quickly. Often not displaying good judgement along the way.

Since 28 she has always had partners who had existing children. She has none of her own.

In the last 14 years she has gone through 16 boyfriends, all with children, she is moved in within weeks of starting to date and assumes the role of step mother very quickly too.

We are a 'treat all children the same' family, we are also a close family so once she assumes this role these children then become part of our wider family, we celebrate their birthdays, family holidays, Christmases together. Our kids become 'cousins' and when they inevitably break up we are left having bonded with children we will never see again.

Within the last 3 months she has split from her ex and we waved goodbye to 2 wonderful boys and she is moving in next week with a new man and his 3 year old DD who he has 50/50.

I have put my foot down and told my sister I am refusing to meet this child until they are far more established as I and my kids can't keep going through this cycle, getting to know these children and then one day we get a test they've split up and we will never see or speak to them again. She has hit the roof, accused me of being stuck up, not supporting her new relationship and being nasty to a 3 year old she hasn't even met yet (but will be moving in with in a weeks time!)

I've tried to gently and not so gently point out the speed she moves is not good for these children, at all, and although I understand it takes 2 to tango she needs to bear some responsibility for saying no to moving in with men who have children in such short time frames. If they ask her to move in she can say no etc.

Half my family have joined me in refusing to meet this child for a long time, my parents are still a bit upset about the last 2 who they really started to love as GC, they took them away on little holidays etc. and are genuinely upset about losing them.

The other half think we will end up pushing DSIS away and she won't change her behaviour so what's the point.

So AIBU to refuse to meet this child? Was thinking about assessing in 6 months time.

Where are the Mothers of these children if your DSIS is being encouraged / allowed to move in with their Dads very quickly?
This is no disrespect to your DSIS by the way, OP! It just seems odd that the childrens Mothers are standing back and allowing a stranger to live along side their young children like this!
As pp have said, the Dads are quite happy that she becomes a Mummy figure but it all seems dead weird to me - and I certainly would not allow it to happen with my own DC.

@Kanaloa

i agree with your posts. A slower, sensible pace for all concerned,

Tbh no I wouldn't bond with ch like that, who are very likely to be temporary.

How would you bond with foster family? I'd like them, enjoy spending time with them but be under no illusion that they'd be moving on. They're not family until she's married... but I wouldn't say that or she'll get married!

No, you are not being in any way unreasonable. Well done for standing up to her. She has no right to involve you and your family in her non-stop drama. More worrying is how little empathy she has for either her partners' children or yours. Please stay strong and don't give in to her bullying.

I also think it's unfair on those ch, not just your own ch.

It's probably fair to fair their dad has had a few relationships like that, the kids are probably exhausted from permanently loosing new family. And with your family set up they get a massive amazing family who all automatically love and accept them. Then it's gone in about a year.

So no, I'd be backing right off and I'd tell my parents why. Those ch already have family who can babysit for them.

She never chooses great men, most are shit fathers and to those children she is one of the only 'stable' adults in their lives (and considering how unstable she often is that's a worry in itself)

Is it possible that the only reason your DS is able to be the "stable" adult is because her "parenting" is propped up by her lovely sounding extended family of loving aunts, uncles, GPs, all happy to open their homes and hearts to these SC while their feckless fathers sit back and let someone else do their work?

I saw something similar with my friend's DD's last relationship. To be fair, the DF was a nice lad, but far too young and immature to be a dad. His ex was mentally unstable, and his own family refused to give him any help. Not only was the DD single parenting this man's child most weekends (whilst also being the main breadwinner of the couple), but her mum (my lovely friend), her sister and pretty much the whole family were involved in the child's care, while he worked or pursued his hobbies. I watched this from afar and thought, but didn't say, that the only reason this went on so long (several years, lots of bonding) was because the whole family was enabling the situation. She eventually broke up with him, but it took a huge toll on the DD's mental health, and the poor kid lost the only proper mum figure and extended family love he'd ever known. I wonder whether it would have fizzled out sooner had my friend and the rest of the family been a bit less willing to prop up this man's schedule and choices (not to mention his family's choice to be disinterested, and those of the child's own mother to put herself before her child).

YANBU. I’d be keeping my kids well away from these situations.

Most aren't involved, or have them 50/50.

The last few lived with their dad full time after SS removed them from their respective mothers :(

Have you reported the fathers cocaine habit to SS?

It definitely could be part of it

DSIS has her issues but outwardly is very 'stable' good, stable career, remembers to make sure the kids take their medication, pays for pretty much everything in these relationships too. Has a car - all things these men never seem able to do properly, I don't think I can recall one of them not being in rent arrears when she moved in with them.

I feel she gets taken advantage of from multiple fronts, as do my parents. She calls and considers these children her children so my parents especially don't then want to play 'favourites' with mine and my brothers children and treat them differently - as it would be noticeable

@Kanaloa

Not sure what's so hard to understand

We treat them the same as the other children in the family, based on our relationship with said other children. Why would I treat them the same as my own children - that would be stupid.

Many on here seem to think it's impossible for people to treat children the same as their own, or as part of the family, seen time and time again on wicked SM posts.

Most aren't involved, or have them 50/50.

The last few lived with their dad full time after SS removed them from their respective mothers :(

This is quite unusual.

Most shit fathers I know don't see their kids at all.

Does she actively seek out men with children?

You can’t control what your sister does but you can control what you and your children do, and how they come to see these children. Just treat them like friends. It’s lunacy to talk about being cousins (your OP) and all being treated the same way when there’s a revolving door of children coming through. How can you create such a deep bond with them if there’s 14 families in 16 years? Catch on a bit.

This just all feels a bit mad to me. It doesn’t matter that she calls children she met a few weeks ago her children - they aren’t! You seem caught on them all needing to be treated the same - in that case I guess if you and your DH broke up your parents would completely cut your kids out of their lives, never seeing them again, to be quickly replaced with kids of your new boyfriend? No? Then they aren’t treating them the same. It isn’t ‘playing favourites’ to treat your grandchildren different from the latest in a long line of random children your relative is pretending are her own children. Your sister sounds either delusional or actively nasty and selfish, and you and your parents shouldn’t facilitate that by sitting watching her play with children from chaotic and traumatic home lives like they’re toys.

I don't think YABU to not want to meet them but I wonder how on earth that is practical considering all your updates on how much you all see each other. I really don't understand why your parents are doing so much childcare for children that they must barely know.

No yanbu

Seems your stance will completely split your family as your lives are so interwoven.

Good luck!

I do wish that people who are describing
@steppingintosprings Dsis as being things like "nasty and selfish", or as possibly having mental health problems, would read the OP's posts, particularly the Original Post.

The OP stated very clearly in her OP that her Dsis does have mental health problems, and my opinion of people with serious mental health problems is that they shouldn't be called things like "nasty" or "selfish", as they may well not have the capacity to be anything other than what they are. They are often not acting within the same social and/or behavioral parameters that the majority of the rest of the population are.

Of course

[and I am not referring to the OP's Dsis here, this is not relevant to the OP's post at all]

I do not mean that the general public - or the person themselves - do not need to be protected from those with MH problems, if they are a danger to themselves or others. But I would usually still maintain that however bad, say a psychopaths behaviour was, they probably can't be blamed for their behaviour, unless as thoroughly well loved and brought up children, with no hidden trauma in their lives - and we probably wouldn't be aware if there had been - they decided to start experimenting with drugs, and/or alcohol to such an extent that it had the potential to cause significant harm to themselves and others. As adults we should usually be held to account for the choices we make as an adult, although hopefully still with any compassion due to us.

People can have poor mental health and still be nasty and selfish - they’re still people, and don’t need to be infantilised when their actions are hurting others. Would you say the same of a man who was abusive but said he had depression? It’s not his fault? No, of course it’s his fault. He has poor mental health and he’s also a bad person. And many others have poor mental health and don’t hurt others as a matter of course.

This is a woman who holds a job and owns her own home. If she has no capacity to understand appropriate behaviour and the consequences of her actions on others then she’d struggle to do those things.

@Kanaloa I presume that you either didn't read my whole reply (or the OP's posts), or just skimmed it.

I referred to people with serious mental health problems. I am not talking about a 'normal' depression, which I and many other people suffer from. I am referring to MH difficulties that actually change or affect some of the processes that take place in the brain, they can change a person's personality, as can diseases like dementias and Parkinson's Disease.

The OP's description of how her DSis was went far beyond that of someone who has "poor mental health", which you then go on to give an example of a man who "says" he has depression and gives it as an excuse for being abusive - while I am attempting to respect your opinion Kanola, I am struggling a bit with your example, as it is obviously designed to shock or make me/any woman see sense, as on Mumsnet there is not much worse than an abusive man. Of course I agree that any abusive people are up there with the worst type of behaviour anyone can exhibit.

Unfortunately for you, I don't find your example at all relevant to what I am talking about. Some of the PP's questioned if the OP's DSis may have the condition usually just named as Bi-Polar. So do you think @Kanaloa that people with conditions like BP, or Schizophrenia are just nasty and selfish then, even though they have no control over what is happening in their brains?

You then go on to talk about the OP's DSis
having a job and owning her own home, so she can't be that bad or she couldn't do those things - the OP has told us that her DSis has only been able to achieve those things in the last year, and that they are remarkable achievements for her DSis, which from the information that @steppingintosprings has given about her DSis so far, I definitely agree with (as much as anyone can in this sort of format).

Hopefully the OP's DSis will go from strength to strength now. Maybe she has had some sort of big gear shift in her brain - although it sounds like she still needs a lot of encouragement

[and almost certainly some more supportive MH help from professionals - imo she has been greatly let down by the MH professionals so far, but very sadly that seems to have been a failing in MH care for almost everyone who needs it, and for many, many years]

to continue on her quest to being a reasonably well functioning middle-aged woman, partner, and mother or step-mother.
Unfortunately if the OP's DSis suffers from a MH illness like Bi-Polar, she could just be in a non-manic phase at the moment, and it all come tumbling down again, but I pray that that is not the case here.

Going back to your response to my last reply to the OP yesterday, at the time of 19:37 @Kanaloa you seem to have not read my last paragraph at all, as I talk there of the need to protect the public from people who have MH illnesses that have become dangerous to themselves or others. So please Kanola, if you want to reply to me again, or in fact to any one person specifically, can you make sure that you have first read or heard what I or others have actually said, and if you don't understand some, or any of it, please ask for clarification on those points before jumping to your own conclusions - having said that, we are all human, and I know that I don't always manage to practice what I preach, and that I must try harder too...

Why have you @ me about a million times? Utterly unnecessary. Yes, I think her actions are still nasty and selfish. Of course if op comes back to explain that her sister is mentally disabled/severely mentally ill and does not have the capacity to comprehend that her actions consequentially can hurt others then it’s different, as she would not have the capacity to be selfish. Although of course it doesn’t lessen the trauma she’s helping to inflict on children. I do doubt this is the case though.

And I did read your post btw. Just disagreed with it.

I find it really interesting that you see the way you do things as 'right' when it could be seen as unrealistic at best and unhealthily enmeshed at worst.

I do wonder how this dynamic has worked for your sister. Family being this all-encompassing thing with so many rules and expectations. She creates it (poorly) at every turn and it's still not good enough.

Your posts have seemed judgemental and I wonder if she experiences that x1000 in her RL.

Family therapy all around, I think. She didn't magically become the person she is.

Surely there could be a middle ground, friendly and welcoming but without expectations that these children are suddenly part of your family? Your approach seems to be very black-and-white

Of course you are entitled to disagree with my post Kanola! But I was particularly talking about my last paragraph, which was very similar to your views - but maybe my lack of vitriol meant that you couldn't actually understand what I was saying?

I will admit that I do not understand the etiquette of the Internet, so I apologise if my use of the "at" character upsets you in some way? However, may I just point out that in your reply to me (it was to me wasn't it, as you never mentioned my name even once, which I find equally rude with my old fashioned ideas on etiquette and behaviour) you exaggerated so ridiculously ("about a million times" - Lol) that it makes your whole complaint seem rather petty. If you had actually stated the number of times I had used the "at" character - 3 times - I may have attached more gravitas to it.

I will leave this here, as I have found your attitude to be both rather unpleasant, and also rather boring. But I do feel sorry for you that your apparent anger seems to actually stop you from understanding what someone else is saying, unless there is another more personal reason to you, for your incomprehension?