To ask why people vote Tory?

[Tierne]

It has to be said that life in the UK on low or middle income is much harder than it seemingly is in other western countries of similar wealth. I dont think the Tory party is making this country a nice place to live in at all. But they keep getting voted in.

So if you vote Tory:
Why do you vote for them?
Would you ever change your vote and for what reason?
Do you feel uncomfortable at how Tory policies batter the most vulnerable in our society? For example making it impossible for people to get on the housing ladder, high rents and low tenant protections, no energy bill caps, etc?

NB: I dont want this to turn into a Tory bashing thread. I'd just like to hear how Tory supporters feel about their party.

And, again, in with the insults from the left. An argument that you dislike is “simplistic thinking” because, of course, no-one on the right could possibly have a well-formed view, could they?

Again, do you really have no idea how harmful posts like yours are to your supposed cause?
Your “who would do the menial jobs” question has an obvious answer, it’ll still be the large number of people who have no interest in gaining the skills needed to do better.

This same point gets trotted out so often, the idea that it’s no use in working to improve your skills as “if everyone did you’d be no better off.” Not everyone will.

Your point is like saying to a boxer that there’s no point training, as the other guy can just train hated too, so you gain nothing. That’s clearly nonsensical; however much the other guy trains, it still benefits you to do as much as you can.

The whole idea that people are stuck where they start is given value by people such as you telling everyone not to bother, that their efforts make no difference.

It’s easy to earn a very high wage in the UK; most people are capable of it, but most simply don’t bother to even try.

How am I insulting you, I’m merely pointing out that life isn’t as simple as just ‘’get a good job’’ it just isn’t! There are many factors which influence it, it isn’t black and white and never will be.

The point is, everybody can’t have a good job, and if they could there would be less incentive as there would be less ‘’specialist’’ skills that command higher wages in the first place.

You think people who do menial jobs should struggle? Everybody should have enough money to manage on no matter what job they do. Just because somebody works in a factory producing products that are vital to society, doesn’t mean they don’t work hard and deserve to be able to at least live a decent life.

if somebody chooses not to work and is able to, which by the way is a lot less than the tories would have you believe, then yes they should get the minimum required to live on, but they shouldn’t have no heating and no food as a human being.

How? The use of the description that my thinking was “simplistic.”

You are twisting my words in this latest post, I’ve never said that someone working in a factory should struggle. If anything, encouraging everyone to up-skill and make themselves as valuable to employers as possible will also lift the wages of those at the bottom as the available pool of “cheap” labour is diminished.

The idea that society owes heat, shelter and food to any able-bodied healthy person who could work is something that I just don’t agree with, and this is a view that’s been common for millennia. From St Paul to Lenin “he who will not work, neither shall he eat” is a morally positive statement. Taking bread from the mouths of a working family to give to someone who simply refuses to contribute is immoral, and corruptive of society.

Both you and I are 2nd tier British citizens now. The Tory government made it so. Does that not worry you?

Are you unaware of this legislation @FarFromHome2?

No, I’m not, please don’t make things up about me.

It is a simplistic view. What if someone can’t upskill? What if then don’t have the intelligence?

There is nuance. Like I said, if you grow up poor, you’re highly likely to be poor yourself, research has proven this time and time again. Yes some do make something of themselves but proportionately it’s not a lot at all.

Very few people choose not to work out of laziness despite the fact that the British public are led to believe it’s rife.
They begrudge someone £70 a week to eat but don’t give a shit that the government are giving billions in tax payers money to their already rich mates.

Life just isn’t as easy as ‘’work hard and be rewarded’’

I vote Tory because there’s no good alternative. I really dislike Truss though so unless Labour come up with someone good, hod knows what I will do in 2 years!

Truss is doing better in PMQs than I thought she would

In the first debate I thought she did the least well, now I reckon she can hold her own

I have no issue with her speaking approach, doesn’t waffle and is direct

No one has framed the argument good vs bad. However, those who make salient decisions or are better suited to roles that pay more or generate higher incomes via ideas should not be persecuted by those who haven't or have few skills.

The problem with the Marriot review is, that most people alive today who built our wealth came from humble poor backgrounds.
What has changed is work ethic and accountability. And like the poster above mentioned, why should I pay for some feckless stranger to go out drinking?
I don't want to.
I started on a government program YTS, I don't enjoy my job/business however 30 yrs later my income has grown and I'm self-sufficient.

The one good thing that's come from this thread is how civil it has been. Also notice the swing of votes now people are more confident to speak up for themselves. Nobody should ever be ganged up on and it happens far too much on here.

@Kashmirsilver i didn’t say people who make good decisions should be persecuted, good for them, they deserve a better life, that isn’t the point though.

I get that people don’t want to pay for lazy people, shock horror, I don’t either! But the vast majority of welfare goes to deserving recipients and this ‘’scrounger’’ mentality isn’t helpful.

Yes, everybody should work, but the idea that everybody should/could get a high paid job and if you don’t you deserve to struggle is just mad. It’s a complex situation. Also very few people actually don’t work because they’re lazy and feckless, that’s an inaccurate stereotype that keeps being trotted out.

Tory polices keep people poor by taking away what little resources are available to the disadvantaged and then blaming them.

I didn't make up anything about you @FarFromHome2. Under Tory legislation passed by PM Johnson, any British citizen believed to be entitled to citizenship in another country can be stripped of their British citizenship without notice.

Israel's Right to Return means that this law applies to Jewish Brits (the law also applies others, I'm one of them) but not to all British people. It's a special one, for people like us.😧

@Kashmirsilver as far as I was aware, the majority of wealth comes from aristocracy.

That's a massive presumption.

The thinking behind your post then is another answer to the question asked in the thread title. People do not want anyone who thinks like this to form a government.

They don’t agree with the idea that people can’t improve their lit in life, that they are just good for the mist menial of tasks. They don’t want someone in charge who actually believes that people can’t change their destinies, or that it is ever reasonable to choose to sit on your arse your whole life and be given money that’s been taken from workers.

Everyone knows people who’ve found a way to do better, and others who just take handouts, and a great many don’t want a government that works to equalize their lifestyles or incomes.

You are entitled to your views, but they are precisely why the good people of the UK will not return a government that shares them.

I’m not British. The UK government has no mechanism whatsoever to affect my citizenship.

Oh, I thought you were a UK citizen. Do you live here now?

@FarFromHome2 People CAN change their destiny, I never said they couldn’t, the point is it isn’t just that simple.

People should be rewarded for working hard, yes, but there needs to be some understanding and compassion and help out there that actually facilitates people to make the best of their lives, not punishing them and stereotyping them as feckless scroungers who need to get a better job, while simultaneously taking away things that would help them to do that.

Also some understanding that sometimes people cannot physically and mentally ‘’better themselves’’

It’s just human decency.

I do, I moved here for work, and have a British husband and children. I’ve been here fifteen years.

..and you sound like a can do, positive person x

Then your husband and children are at risk from this law in a way other British citizens are not.

@Culldesack well it’s proven that if you grow up with money and privilege
you are at an automatic advantage. Like most of the Tory cabinet.

Are you seriously saying it is all Tory MPs who have grown up with privilege and no other party's MPs? More lazy thinking.

No, you missed the point. I’m not saying that at all, the point being that most of the tories haven’t got a clue what it’s like to struggle and neither do they care, because they’ve never lived through it and it doesn’t effect them. They are mostly billionaires who grew up with silver spoons in their mouths.

It’s got nothing to do with other parties or other MP’s