What's a fair amount of maintenance to expect in this situation?

[anonquestion22]

I've NC for this as don't want it linking to other threads for anonymity.

I'm leaving my partner soon (many reasons but abuse is one of them). I'm not at the point of moving out just yet - still looking for suitable places and working out finances etc. So none of this has been discussed directly with my STBEx partner just yet, so no idea what he will agree to. Nor do I know if he plans to have our DC overnight and how often etc. so these things will need to be ironed out. But just wanting an idea of what's a "fair" contribution to expect from him.

We have one DC aged 18 months, who attends nursery 3 days a week and on the other 2 days each of us has a day off work to care for our child. Childcare costs for this are in the region of £500-580 per month depending on how many weeks / days in the month. Average cost would be around £530.

He earns a net monthly income in the region of £2,200-2,900 per month, overtime depending.
He has 2 other DC who he pays £250 pm maintenance for.

Thank you.

OP unless there is a court order which makes it clear or he alone has signed up for the nursery, then it will be you who will end up being liable for nursery costs.

As PPs have said make sure the majority of the credit card debt is paid off before you leave him.

Plan properly even if you have to put up with him for a few more months.

So if he has her Monday night too, he's responsible for childcare on Monday?

Who signed the contract with the nursery?

You?

Him?

Or both of you?

@Testina

I take your point but just to reply to your examples. He does work some weekends but he also works a lot of weekdays, including evenings. So he needs childcare during those times, too. Obviously on evenings and weekends I'm the childcare. Between 9-5 on weekdays (except the 2 days we each have off work), we pay for childcare. He still needs that as much as I do in order to go to work.

And it lost definitely wasn't an accidental pregnancy that he didn't want. It was planned by us both.

*most definitely

@RedWingBoots

I think it was me.

As a minimum my signature will be on there. His might also be on there but I can't recall if he did or not.

How often does he see his older children? That will give you an idea of how often he will want contact

You’re mixing up what legally and morally right.
It doesn’t matter which days he has her - if he has not signed a contract for childcare with a nursery, he’s legally not responsible to pay for it.
Morally… too subjective.
Start point, 50/50 is fair.
But what if he earned £100K and you’d moved to a country with no visa to work, for him. Then 50/50 isn’t fair.
No-one can tell you what’s fair in your particular circumstances.

EOW and some days of the school hols. They are older now though so they also pick and choose when they want to see him. There's no set schedule it's all ad hoc. He also looks after our DC on a set day each week that he has off work as she's only 18 months so not in school yet. I'm assuming he'll want to keep that in place as he does seem to enjoy having that day with her.

Sorry that was in reply to @SpinningFloppa

It doesn’t matter.
Even if you have a contract with nursery when you are joint and severally liable (and I’d eat my hat if you are) then if he just didn’t pay, you know you’d pay so you could continue to work.

I wouldn’t get hung up on this.
Work out half the cost of your child, including childcare.
Tell him that’s what you expect.
Then see what he says (spoiler alert: it’ll be no 😕)

The thing is, it doesn't matter if he should or shouldn't pay for childcare, he legally isn't required to. If he refuses to pay it on any days there is nothing you can do about it. He can just dump the kid on you and leave you to deal with it. The only thing he legally has to do is pay child maintenance. You can ask him, but I wouldn't approach it as something he must provide for because he can just say no or say he'll see the child for dinner then drop them home again.

@Testina

I'm not sure where to start with working out half the cost of my child ..... there's so much to factor in. I pay for swimming classes for her, for example, which we both enjoy and alternate taking her to. Then there's new clothes / shoes every 2-3 months as she's growing so fast as toddlers too (I also sort 80-90% ish of these things currently). Obviously food and nappies. Then childcare. I'd struggle to put a figure on it hence why I asked on here. Maybe I need to sit down and do some calculations!

In hindsight my use of the word "fair" doesn't accurately convey what I'm trying to say.

I suppose a better word would have been "reasonable". What's a reasonable figure to suggest to him. Yes, he's likely to please himself anyway. But I wanted an idea of reasonable.

Because I know it doesn't matter what the CMS calculator churns out. He won't be paying that and they won't be enforcing it.

i'd start by reporting him to cms, he could do with making proper payments to his ex.
how he treats her and his kids will be how he treats yours - with less money to throw around.

You should also look at your entitlement to free childcare as well. Your DD will get this at 3 anyway but in some cases you can claim from 2. As pp have mentioned if you are entitled to certain benefits you will get a contribution to childcare.

I think you need to assess your full entitlement to everything including any benefits (assume no contribution from him for this, afaik maintenance doesn't count towards income for benefit purposes anyway).

Then push for at least the CMS minimum and anymore that you can get.

Does he know you are leaving yet?

If not you have time to put a plan in place and get prepared money wise.

Find a way to get the credit card debt paid. Could it move to a 0% interest card in his name? Find a good deal and sell the idea to him.

Time for a growth spurt. Dd needs new clothes asap - try and get her kitted out for the next size up in shoes and clothes.

Do you have access to money / cards? How do you do the shopping. Can you buy gift cards etc as part of the weekly shop?

Any money you can get will help you get started.

You have to assume he will give you the bare minimum. So be prepared to go it alone.

Research what benefits you will be entitled to esp childcare contributions.

If you can access a payslip of hmrc letter then take a photo. Bare minimum get his National Insurance number.

On the basis that he has made sure he pays his ex wife no child maintenance you should probably expect nothing too. However that would actually be fair if you were to share care of your child 50/50. What's reasonable doesn't come in to it unfortunately.
As they say here, get your ducks in a row before you say anything to him.

It's really difficult OP and you do need to be ready for things to change substantially (financially) when you separate, he won't be picking up half of all the costs that exist now. Things become a lot tighter when you're both needing to maintain separate homes with enough room to host your child. He's not going to fork out for things like swimming lessons etc separately from the amount he decides to pay you.

Given he already has a precedent for what he considers fair as CM, it's highly likely he'll offer you the same. If he's reasonable, he may offer half of childcare - however, I'd imagine he won't given what he pays his ex and the fact that you've said he's abusive and you're about to leave him unexpectedly....I'm assuming he won't take that easily and will likely try and make things difficult for you.

It definitely seems really weird that HMRC don't have his true income if he's a regular employee, I'd definitely query that with CMS if you do separate.

@MadeForThis

Thank you, that's all very helpful.

No he doesn't know I have a firm plan.

Yes I have access to funds. Weekly shop we both make equal contributions from out respective accounts, eg first 2 weeks of the month he does the shops, 2nd two I do them. Works out we spend roughly the same.

All bills are paid from my account in my name. He transfers half of the total amount to my account each month to cover this. He also transfers half the credit card payment and half childcare fees each month and I pay them.

I cover all clothes etc that DC needs. He doesn't notice when she's outgrown things and takes no initiative so I end up just sorting this. Same for things like toys etc for her.

He has poor credit so can't transfer the CC debt to his name. Hence why it was in mine to begin with.

Ps. For your query about what's actually reasonable - I'd say £125 and half of childcare costs, assuming you both need those childcare days.

Other posters have repeated my point.

If you or both of you have signed the contract for your DD's nursery then it will be you who ends up paying.

This is because he has already shown you that he doesn't contribute towards the cost of raising his children.

I would take a few months to sort out this in your favour. It's clear he doesn't want to support his kids, and he's not going to make any exception for the ones he has with you.

Take the fact the energy prices are increasing and the interest rates are rising to argue a case to clear that credit card. Are you still paying 0% interest? Or are you now paying interest. If so, that'll be biting as no doubt the interest you're paying is going to be 20-25% typically.
Tell him you both (ie HE, but don't phrase it that way) will have to up the payments to clear it. And insist he pays a higher ££.
He knows fuel payments are going up - so you both (he again) will have to contribute more.
Every time you go shopping take £20 cash back and save it. Leave off a high value item as 'they didn't have any' and pop it on the list for HIS turn. You can then legitimately show him your bills account is drained of money due to the energy and the food shopping going up.
Buy new clothing the DC need secondhand. There's masses out there barely worn.
Engineer it so he pays for the swimming lessons. You paid the last lot and are short of cash this month because x y or z/ energy bills/ put extra in to food shop etc.
Save yourself a little nest egg runaway fund.
If he is abusing you then I would contact Woman's Aid. Firstly they'll find a safe place for you and your child. Secondly they will know who to contact to get you help with eg housing.

But if your STBEXH's DC are with you EOW and some days in the holidays, surely you have the means to contact their Mother, to ensure that she's getting what her DC are entitled to from their Father?