When poverty comes in the door, loves goes out the window

[Slowdaysfastyears]

Do you agree?

I always remember a friend of mine telling me that her mum had said this to her when she was young and for her to make sure she settles with someone who can provide (not necessarily rich) she said that with money struggles, life is so much harder and love dies. The mum herself has been married for years to a lovely man with a nice amount of money, nice house, she’s never worked..but not rich. Her daughter, my friend has followed a similar path..my friend is lovely, but has always been materialistic and money minded..she has worked in the past and has a degree etc though, unlike her mum.
Do you agree with this view or that her mum saying this to her as a child is damaging? Her grandmother said the same to her too.
Is there any harm in hoping or advising our children to marry *Well?

Well my ex bled me dry. Racking up debts that I ended up paying off in the divorce.

So to be with someone who lives within their means now makes a huge difference.

I wouldn't say be with a man for his money, but I also wouldn't be with a man who didn't have any.

My mother and grandmother both said this. They also said, "better to marry a rich man and be miserable in comfort than a poor man and be happy in poverty"

Not too sure I agree as I believe it's better to be financially independent, plough your own furrow and not have to depend on any man, rich or poor

The saying is probably accurate. The sentiment (to marry a man with money) is all wrong.

Work hard at school, get and keep a decent job, live within your means, don't marry a cocklodger.

I think it is really important to marry someone who holds similar values to you. Financial security levels or the definition of financial security is subjective, people can have different views on what they consider to be safe levels of savings or what makes them feel vulnerable.

I personally must have savings all the time, meaning I need to work all the time. I 'm amicably separated, and can't ever see myself settling into a very long term relationship again, for lots of reasons. One of those reasons is I could not change my views on the level of financial security I need to feel content. I think money causes so many strains in relationships. For me: if someone became financially dependent on me, I would feel used and I could not be in a romantic relationship with them, they need to be 100% financially secure, otherwise there is an unbalance in the couple dynamic and this effects what you can do together.

I know couples who seem very content, who hold very different views, where one party abdicates all financial responsibilities to the other, but I guess they are not in poverty and there will be inheritances from the non-financially contributing partner, so I guess over a lifetime things will even out a little.

I also know couples in poverty and I think it has a pretty severe mental health impact, and creates extreme hostilities.

I don't see a problem with advising your children to marry someone productive, who will partner with you in life and wont be a passenger.

I would say when reality of life be it illness, responsibilities,housework, children, difficulty conceiving etc comes in the door love often goes out the window in even the strongest of couples. It is far from limited to just poverty or financial difficulty.

They do say never marry for love.

I think it's vital to share the same values and attitude towards money. I don't think it's necessarily important what they are, just that they're shared. I couldn't be with a mean man, or a man who didn't earn their share.

That said, I do know that saying and it's true to an extent. When huge life events happen - like you lose your job/earning potential, or you have a disabled child, then 'love' does go out the window. What you're left with, if you're lucky, are shared values and a shared approach to getting through the situation.

Work hard at school, get and keep a decent job, live within your means, don't marry a cocklodger

The problem with this is that you can work hard at school and just still not be bright enough to make it into 3rd level, many struggle academically. Or you can come from a family that is not 3rd level inclined-the home level support network is very important here.

Then you can work hard and end up in many noble and well respected professions such as teaching yet find these days that the salary is not near enough to get a property and many jobs like this are not stable anymore. If you get older or more expensive it's harder to get hired.

Also about marrying the cocklodger-sometimes we don't see it until after the ring is on the finger.

My mum used to say that too. I think it’s pretty accurate, money worries can devastate a relationship.

All very true. But it's still better, and more realistic, advice than 'marry rich'.

I disagree with this and if anyone tried to say similar to my daughters they'd be getting it in the ear from me

Sexist crap

Girls should be empowered to create their own financial security

Not rely on others for that

I've advised my DC's to be mindful of the future earning potential of potential partners.

I don't mean chasing someone rich and scrounging off them because I'm clear I don't approve of that.

I mean thinking about the kind of lifestyle they want, eg house type, size and location. Look at how much those houses cost. Think that they can borrow c 3x joint earnings. So use that as a starting point.

Also if they want to be a double income couple make sure they can afford the full time childcare costs of 2 DC's (or however many they want). My eldest was very shocked when I said it would be at least £1000 pcm per child for nursery.

That's not even getting started on things like if they want private schools, exotic holidays, new/ fancy cars.

If they want a high end lifestyle (they may not!) then they will be unhappy if they have a low ambition partner who only wants to work part time or do low skilled work or never go for promotions.

It's just being realistic about life.

I wish I hadn't been as idealistic about jobs/ careers when I was a young adult. I picked the wrong jobs and ended up in poverty for a long time. The widest remembers this and has learned not to repeat my mistakes!

My mother used to say the opposite, you can be poor together but only one of you gets rich. That was what happened to her, my father left when he became rich after she supported him for years. I don't think it's anything to do with money, money is just another way to show if you are an asshole or not.

The stress of poverty cannot be underestimated. It’s relentless and leaves no aspect of your life untouched. I don’t think love can survive it.
I would agree that marrying well is important, but what I mean by well is someone who respects money and savings. A big earner and spender who accumulated debts would be as bad to me as a lazy person who doesn’t bother work hard to bring home an income.

*Sexist crap

Girls should be empowered to create their own financial security

Not rely on others for that*

the advice just isn't for girls though, once it was but times have changed and life is more expensive these days. It be advice for both genders, many males in good professions struggle too these days. Many males would seek out partners like females do and look at the financial contributions she can bring.

The days of a man being the sole earner on a good salary are pretty much gone, whilst males might dominate the top paying roles still like CEOs, this still only applies to a minority of men.

I don't think you should marry solely for money.

However, I think it's quite sensible if you are looking to marry someone and have children to choose a partner who is solvent, financially reliable and a good provider. Make sure you love them too though!

If you read the post the advice was 'to settle for someone who can provide'

This is sexist especially when aimed at young girls as this example was

My mortgage broker just told me that DH and I can borrow 5 X joint salary, so that adds up to £455k. With the equity from our current flat, this is a budget of £600k so can buy a 3 bed flat in north london with that. We are happy with that but realistically that is our forever home as we want to live near family.

But even 10 years ago when DH and I were in university, that would easily have bought a 4 bed house in our area if we were on similar salaries. That was roughly when we got together. Things do change and I do anticipate that in 10 years time, two professionals on £75k salaries each would be able to buy a starter home- 2 bed flat or 2 bed terraced in London and the SE without parental help. Right now, there are still people who manage to buy without parental help esp if they move outside london and have at least 100k combined income. In the future, including in the north, 100k would not be enough so rather than looking at just jobs/careers, one should also study whether the future spouse's parents can fund private school and house deposits! Based on your methodology on ensuring a minimum standard of life, parental input does feature quite prominently. Many people I know get a lot of financial support from their parents and this matters more than their day jobs. And these are solicitors, doctors etc.

It’s important to consider money when choosing a partner. That
means marrying someone with a strong work ethic and who is responsible with spending. It also means looking for a partner who would only choose someone with those values aka having those values yourself. you don’t both need to bring the same amount of money to the relationship and the amount of money may change from year to year from factors beyond either person’s control. The shared values are what really matter because if you have those, then you know you will handle problems well.

If you read the post the advice was 'to settle for someone who can provide

Yes I did but that can be read as ensuring the partner earns enough, doesn't mean the woman can just give up work and live off him. She might have to work too.

Whilst people here might say marrying for money terrible advice I would agree to an extent but then my mind is swayed because I've seen umpteen threads on mn on this topic over the years. And many women who are middle aged and older said they wished they had married for money over love as they'd struggled for years financially, had no pensions, missed their kids childhoods as they always had to work etc and warned us never to marry for love...

I think it's all to easy here to diss out advice but unless you experienced the realities of poverty,financial hardships or excess workloads in a profession you detest we truly cannot understand why people say never marry for love.

I'd like to think that money wouldn't matter to me if I met the right person... But I don't think that's realistic.
Let's face it, a lot of women still expect men to pay for everything on dates and stuff and if he doesn't, they're told to dump him as he's cheap etc.

I don't think it's necessarily shallow for an adult to want someone stable and earning their way in life as a partner.
When you're a kid, a guy just needs nice trainers..or to upset your mum... 😂

I say something similar to my daughter but I also tell her to get a good job herself so she has money but to try and marry someone that also has money as no one likes to be poor.

I chose a man I loved, one who came from a similar background (as far as family finances are concerned) and who shared my views of money management.

I'd advise people not to marry someone who is poorer than they are willing to be. Don't expect riches, but yes, it's okay to want a decent standard of living. If you choose someone and they experience financial difficulty through no fault of their own, that's life, and you should stick with them and make the best of it, but I wouldn't actively choose someone who was living in poverty or was too poor to have what I consider a normal life.

Money's not the most important thing or the only important thing, but it's important.

My reply to that is , when love goes away poverty arrives !
I will teach my kids to be independent. Teaching my daughter to depend on a partner is the worse advice I can think of .
I will teach her to stand on her own 2 feet so if she is ever in a relationship where she needs to leave or is left she is financially stable .
I can proudly say that if my partner left tomorrow all bills would be paid and I would be heartbroken but my kids would not need to go without . This should be a priority imo

My grandad always said ‘marry for love not money, but mind you love where there’s money’.

So pretty much translates as ‘don’t marry a cocklodger’.
we (many female siblings and I) were brought up to be self sufficient and always work / earn but also to be mindful not to throw our lot in with someone who wasn’t those things.

Was never taught anything like that whatsoever - sounds dreadful. But then one of my grandmothers was the main breadwinner and did all the driving which in those days (they were born 1909) was seen as shocking!

We had it drummed into us that you marry someone who is kind clever and decent and then you are a team and you both help each other on. That’s what my parents and both sets of grandparents did and it’s the best way.