To think the bar is set low on parenting for men?

YANBU.
I hate the term ‘hands on dad’. So just a normal dad?
As opposed to what? A shit one basically.

Urgh yeah 100%. I was readmitted to hospital a week after having DS so DH at home with baby. Many comments 'oh he is so wonderful, not many dads would have done that'. Wtf? So what if they don't step up, kids just aren't cared for?! Ditto how much he 'stepped up' whilst I was going through cancer treatment. v v v v annoying.

My ex

beat me up in front of the kids
all my fault for ‘allowing it’ (social workers,school and the police) and ‘failing to protect them’
fuck all said to him

he walked away and that was my fault-I stopped him seeing them (I didn’t)

he fucked a child of 14 and got her pregnant-‘silly girl for getting herself pregnant’ (she’d be the talk of Harley street if she got herself pregnant)

he started selling drugs-never paid a penny for his kids
not a word said

i worked to pay for his kids-‘part time mother!’ ‘Why have kids if your not there for them?’
ended up on benefits-‘why don’t you get a job?’ ‘Sponger!’ ‘lazy bitch!’

he got sent to prison-nothing said

i didn’t sell drugs,go to prison nor walk away from my kids-single + kids=parasite

he goes round telling everyone he adores his kids-‘fantastic father!’ ‘What a man!’ ‘Loves his kids’

hasn’t bothered with them for 25 years and it’s all my fault they don’t want to know him-I never once bad mouthed him-their choice
but it’s ok-he still loves them so is a top dad

its sickening-if I’d walked,I would have got done for neglect

the bar is that low

I went to a birthday party and my partner stayed at home with our baby. Nearly everyone asked me where the baby was, if my partner had gone instead of me would he have been asked that question as much? 'Babysitting' was mentioned once and I corrected it to 'parenting'.

@5128gap

Society doesn't teach them that though.

Society's teaches them that men's role as parents is to make money.

Something plenty women are happy with

If I see men or other people think men are doing a great job, when they are just doing the normal amount, I just ask if they need a medal or gold star!

This popped up on Instagram- he's kind of spot on re a lot of men.

"... behind my back, for the last 10 years, my wife has been doing all the childcare...."

www.instagram.com/reel/ChxaR6LDcPB/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

I can't argue with that, you're right.
Its interesting though, that taking that to its logical conclusion, and back to the premis of the thread, you'd expect mothers who are also earners to recieve similar levels of admiration, as its not the role society expects of them.
Yet I don't think I've ever seen a group of men wax lyrical about what an excellent provider a woman is.

@5128gap

Well, no.

Because lots of men are threatened by women who earn well.

I think it's important to note though that many of the reasons society 'respects' people are totally superficial. People don't care about the baby of a stranger and who feeds it etc. What they see is the person driving the luxury cars and flying around in jets, which is usually the man.

I agree this seems to be the case. However, it's not surprising as we're much more likely to file for divorce against a lower earning partner or a SAHD, and we place much greater significance on financial success and 'status' than men do in our partners.

I find most women I meet want to be competitive with men at work but still want to marry up and have a high earning partner.

It’s a thing because it’s bloody everywhere and it’s so f£&@)!? tiresome having to stamp on it all the time, god only knows I try but you know the patriarchy and people don’t like to make a fuss..

Bullshit again. Stop talking for women as if you know all their situations and why they do things they do. There's a difference between not being empowered to change situations and tolerating them.

Some women might enforce it but that doesn't mean they speak for everyone. It doesn't mean they can't be challenged.

Some men do push for change. Again you don't talk for all men. I have two sons who would never treat women like that. Not all men are so egotistical that they'd like to have a servant at home.

I hope in your very important job you don't make decisions that require nuance.

Exactly!

Well we can change society. It's not fixed in stone. It takes time and effort though.

Changing things does not involve haranguing women though,, speaking for them, black and white thinking (women think this, men think that), putting them down as a class.

From your posts you don't seem to want things to change because you can patronise everyone so much. The feckless men who don't want change because it might impact their sense of superiority (cos of course all men think like that 🙄). And the women who want to enforce sexist attitudes rather than the fact they've been indoctrinated by them and many of them probably can change if it's explained to them why it's not right in today's society. And the women who actually collude in their mistreatment because they want a rich husband 🙄🙄.
Life is much more complex than the simplistic way you paint it.

Except when its a man caring for a baby, and then suddenly it does become a thing to admire and respect. Which I guess brings us full circle to the point of the thread.

The sad thing is

That the bar is set low
By the mums themselves🙄

That doesn't really answer the question


There are lots of 'decent" men who still do the bare minimum


Women tolerate it. Women enforce it.

Why would men push for change?

No. ‘Decent’ men do not do the bare minimum. A decent man would push for change and would insist on being as involved in his child’s and their care as any decent mum.
Sad to say but it sounds like my children are lucky to have a decent dad. He’s quick to call out any of his friends who claim to be ‘babysitting’ (a word some men use to describe looking after their own kids). And he has been irritated in the past by family members who have made a fuss about him taking our kids on a days out when I was working. They were like ‘well done!’, he’s very much like ‘for what?’ He finds the exact things the OP has been describing as patronising and insulting. I think any decent dad who takes pride in his parenting would.

@BeanieTeen

Decent by society standards as per the op.

Not by mine

Unfortunately it's a two way street.

If there are that many men who really are useless then women will get used to a certain level of performance/commitment. Perpetuate that for long enough and there's no wonder why the bar is low and some men are elevated to superhero status. I don't like it and can get quite sarcastic about it but don't think it ever sinks in to those who do the praising.

It's changing but seems quite slow as attitudes take an age to shift.