To think the bar is set low on parenting for men?

[Babysitting101]

It's something I keep noticing. If a man does even the bare minimum for his child people think he's incredible. I saw one deadbeat dad referred to as a 'legend' on Facebook today for 'taking on' his daughter for 12 months whilst her mother was unable to meet her needs, he was also told that 'not many men would do what you did'

By the way, this is a man who fobbed his daughter off on his mother at every opportunity as he was living in her house. He's also a man who seldom bothers with his other small child as he has a capable and committed mother so his 'support' isn't needed the way it is with his daughter.

Still - the mere fact he remained under the same roof as his daughter for approx 12 months meant he achieved legendary status.

Another case that sprung to mind recently is my own. I had an appointment to attend during which my OH had our three children. The person I had the appointment with gushed about how wonderful he is for babysitting... yep, babysitting.

AIBU to think the parenting bar is set so low for men? Why is this a thing?

[Topgub]

@Discovereads

Women are part of society.

Ime as many women like the patriarchy as dont.

They want equality 'lite'

Seen as equal as in allowed to do what they want but as long as they can still rely on a man to pay for it.

Women enforce as many of the sexist rules (judging appearance, parenting, housework standards) as men do.

And why would men want change?

If women sit about waiting for men to change things, nothing ever will.

[KermitlovesKeyLimePie]

@georgarina Then women need to start caring a whole lot less about being "judged".

[Goosygandy]

@Topgub

@georgarina

I'm not sure women gushing over how some men 'parent' is comparable to human rights abuses.

Women (in the uk) certainly although still suffering a patriarchal/sexist society are not mindless victims with no agency of their own

Start a thread about sharing mat/pat leave or about women not being sahms and see how much some women care about being 'oppressed'

It's not the same but it's part of the same mindset.

There's a difference between slamming the attitudes to slamming the individual women for not having agency. It's much harder for some women who've been brought up to be lesser in the family to assert herself. If we changed societal attitudes it wouldn't be somehow socially acceptable to treat a woman as a drudge.

The SAHM threads always become a pile on of superior attitudes. They're not people advising women not to get into precarious situations. They're smug diatribes generally by people with excellent careers who have a lot of power from that, not women in minimum wage jobs. It should be acceptable to be a SAHP but not to treat that person like a servant. How often do we see SAHDs who just do childcare and nothing else, whereas the SAHMs do everything but wipe their husband's bottoms. It's those attitudes that need to change. We need to empower people to have agency not slag them off for not recognising their power.

[georgarina]

@KermitlovesKeyLimePie

@georgarina Then women need to start caring a whole lot less about being "judged".

Easy to say. Not easy to do when you're on your own struggling with no support and being told you're failing and a bad mother on top.

[Goosygandy]

@georgarina

Easy to say. Not easy to do when you're on your own struggling with no support and being told you're failing and a bad mother on top.

Too right. The people always telling women they should feel empowered are almost the ones putting them down. How does that help?

[Rinatinabina]

I saw a something on mumsnet which really struck a chord, a poster said it was amazing how little it took for a man to be considered a good father and a woman a bad mother.

DH is definitely a hands on dad (will do everything I do with no issues) but no one has acted like I’m the dogs bollocks for taking her to the park 🙄. I want my fucking medal

You see the biggest difference when you see how people respond to single dads vs single mums. It’s extraordinary really.

[Topgub]

@Goosygandy

Society is made up of individuals

We cant change societal attitudes without changing individuals attitudes

A fairly recent survey (2018, maybe?) showed that most people surveyed (menand women of all ages, even 20s to 30s) thought that a mum of preschool children shouldn't work.

Not a parent. A mum.

We're not changing societal attitudes

[georgarina]

@Goosygandy

Too right. The people always telling women they should feel empowered are almost the ones putting them down. How does that help?

Exactly. How long do you think a man would last in an office where his boss and all his coworkers told him he was failing and shit at his job?

It's easy to say 'just don't care' but that's not how humans work. That's like breaking your leg and someone telling you 'just stop caring about the pain.'

[Aria2015]

Yes to all of that! My dh tries it at home too. I'm frequently told he can't shower, go to the toilet, cook etc... with a child in tow! He doesn't have an answer for why I can do all those things with a child clamped to my ankle but somehow he can't?

I think it comes from the fact that just a generation or so ago, it was widely accepted that most fathers went to work and earned the money and the mothers did the childcare and looked after the home. Men today, seem to be compared to men from these previous generations and of course come out looking much more 'hands on'. If we compared them to what mothers have ALWAYS done, they wouldn't come out quick so favourably!

[Whatwouldscullydo]

@Goosygandy

Were we married to the same person? It's so depressing that this story is so familiar.

Unfortunately his mother encouraged this kind of thing by never asking her sons to lift a finger, even when they were adults, so we can do things to change the dynamic (not just blaming her by the way, he was an adult and could have chosen to behave like one, but if my sons behaved like that with their wives I'd go apeshit!).

Thankfully not married to him. We split 2 years ago after 15 years together.

Hed allowed his mum and his family to hate me for stopping him from seeing his mum when it was him who didn't want to see her. I have never stopped him he went out whenever he wanted. Did what he wanted Hes never corrected them. Ever. They think it was me. They only found out a few weeks ago wed even split wasn't even from him or me either. They've been hating me for the whole 2 years we haven't even been together for.

Hes sick now and basically has no family to help cos he won't talk to them.

Some how its my fault. Their precious son /brother wouldn't do that unless I told him 🙄

[Goosygandy]

@Topgub

@Goosygandy

Society is made up of individuals

We cant change societal attitudes without changing individuals attitudes

A fairly recent survey (2018, maybe?) showed that most people surveyed (menand women of all ages, even 20s to 30s) thought that a mum of preschool children shouldn't work.

Not a parent. A mum.

We're not changing societal attitudes

Yes but your method is to slam and criticise not empower. That's never encouraged anyone to do anything ever.

I'm doing my bit by encouraging people around me and having sons that respect women. I don't slag people off for working outside the home or being a SAHM. If I felt a SAHM was being treated poorly, I wouldn't say to her the equivalent of, what did you expect with your poor choices, I'd support and encourage her to change her situation. Belittling people and their choices helps no one except those who choose to subjugate them.

[JenniferBarkley]

YANBU at all.

Dh does half the child wrangling and half the housework, so he is of course amazing. I'm so lucky. What a wonderful father for my children. He knows how the washing machine works, and thus his nobel prize is surely in the post.

I only do half the child wrangling, and I only do half the housework. I am of course a terrible wife and mother, never there for my family, slovenly and unironed.

[Goosygandy]

@Whatwouldscullydo

Thankfully not married to him. We split 2 years ago after 15 years together.

Hed allowed his mum and his family to hate me for stopping him from seeing his mum when it was him who didn't want to see her. I have never stopped him he went out whenever he wanted. Did what he wanted Hes never corrected them. Ever. They think it was me. They only found out a few weeks ago wed even split wasn't even from him or me either. They've been hating me for the whole 2 years we haven't even been together for.

Hes sick now and basically has no family to help cos he won't talk to them.

Some how its my fault. Their precious son /brother wouldn't do that unless I told him 🙄

I'm sorry. Well done for getting out!

[Discovereads]

@Topgub

@Discovereads

Women are part of society.

Ime as many women like the patriarchy as dont.

They want equality 'lite'

Seen as equal as in allowed to do what they want but as long as they can still rely on a man to pay for it.

Women enforce as many of the sexist rules (judging appearance, parenting, housework standards) as men do.

And why would men want change?

If women sit about waiting for men to change things, nothing ever will.

Oh god, yes I completely agree too many women believe their brainwashing and prop up the patriarchy. The biggest example of this is the belief that “biology” forces women to be home for years with each baby, that babies need their mother (not their father), and that women “know their children best” because “biology” and so on. They go on and on about how if you want DC you have to make “sacrifices” and “you can’t have it all”. Which is ridiculous, men have children and a career, so women can too.

The only thing that is different is that what it means to be a father is a very different set of expectations and roles compared to what it means to be a mother. Realistically, they can mean the same thing- we are interchangeable. There is nothing a mother does that a father cannot do (except the pregnancy and birth bit which is all technically pre-parenthood). As a social construct, mother is drastically different from father- and both sexes are often shoehorned into those pidgeon holes like it or not.

It’s all very quasi religious imho and just goes to show how powerful socialisation (brainwashing by society from birth) is. And it’s just as powerful on men as on women.

I agree women can’t sit around waiting for men, but objectively we don’t have all of us on our side and we need some men to also not sit around and wait for women either to get anywhere.

[JenniferBarkley]

Love this from Katherine Ryan.

[UndertheCedartree]

When I had a mental breakdown my DC went onto a Child in need plan. I was sectioned in a hospital so their dad looked after them. He was praised to high heaven by Children's services for every little thing, despite just looking after his own DC. Me never, although I was still carrying the mental load for them and doing loads behind the scenes.

[Squeezedsquash]

My MIL always takes the washing off the line when she visits. “I’ve just brought in the washing for you” she says to me every time. And every time I respond to her, nope, not my washing, DH put it on/out.

[FOJN]

I think it's a form of parenting men in the hope that positive reinforcement will encourage them to want to be better.

The things some men brag about WRT parenting amazes me, they clearly have no idea how much slack most mother's are picking up for them. I was present on one occasion when a male colleague was telling a room full of female colleagues how he'd made his own packed lunch and dropped his child off at nursery before coming to work that morning, most of them had done the same but no one has thought it noteworthy. I couldn't help myself so I said with wide eyed amazement, wow you can organise your own food and looking after your child, your wife must be so proud. He was very offended!

[UndertheCedartree]

Oh and previously when he was mentally unwell and I was looking after the DC I got no support at all, he got everything.

[Topgub]

@Goosygandy


Well thats subjective isn't it?

I dont agree that you can change people's minds with either method tbh.

And lots of people see 'slamming' and belittling' where there is none. Especially when they can't cope with being disagreed with

[Mumspair1]

You do realise this very low bar is set by women? Women who enable this, who act like martyrs and who tolerate this.

[Mumspair1]

@Topgub

Well let's face it, its women who set the bar.

Completely agree. Mummy's boy is termed after who?? The mother, a woman.

[Babysitting101]

@Topgub

Well let's face it, its women who set the bar.

It actually is, and that really irks me.

As PP said you'll never see comments like "isn't he such a wonderful dad" and "you're so lucky to have him to help you" coming from another man when your DH changes a nappy / supports you when you or the child is unwell etc.

In my experience it has come from an older generation than my own, late 50's +

I know things were very different in years gone by but surely we should be acknowledging that times have changed, and for good reason.

[TurtleCavalryIsSeriousShit]

@KermitlovesKeyLimePie but why did we choose these 'lucky' husbands and other people put up with crap?

I didn't have a particularly good example in my own parents, so it's not like some could say: "but you've had an easy life, therefore it's easier to choose the right person."

My sisters chose very different husbands to mine and one is okay-ish and the other one rubbish.

Maybe they are right and we did get 'lucky', but I think I really did put a lot of thought into what I wanted in a partner one day and refused to settle for anything less.

I find the relationship section on here so difficult to read sometimes. I wish I could convince people that they don't have to put up with shit and they deserve better.

[Fizbosshoes]

Actually I (often) get told by my (male) neighbour how lucky I am because DH cooks regularly.
I respond to neighbour that DH is equally lucky to have me. to clear up the aftermath from said cooking