French (and German) children don’t throw food

[Summersummersun]

I have heard of this book and think I need to read it.

Just got back from a foreign holiday where the majority of families were German.

All I saw around me were well behaved,
placid children. I lost count of the number of couples I saw on sun loungers at the pool whilst their (young) children played nearby, nicely, in the shallow pools. I also saw so many parents on their phones or reading, ignoring the children completely, whilst the children either sat and played at their feet, or just sat on the sun beds not really doing anything. Just…sitting. Quietly.

My children are not like this. They’re 6 and 3, and whilst the eldest is a decent swimmer he still needed a lot of interaction in the pool. And they would never just SIT THERE whilst DH and I ignored them. Ever. We were staying in a caravan and granted had limited stuff to entertain them there and then (mainly just stickers/books, no real toys) they rush around the house at home anyway and never sit and play with toys nicely (unless eldest is doing a Lego set).

I’ve never been so conscious of my inadequate parenting and children before, and we have been on plenty of Center Parcs/UK holidays. In fact one of the things I like about CP is the fact that you can relax with DC as there is always another one having a meltdown in the vicinity.

AIBU to think this? Are European children just better behaved?

My German nephews are little shits.

The thing I notice when in the UK is parent shouting at their very young children, and giving them constant ’warnings’. If you don’t behave this will happen. And the children couldn’t care less, they obviously stopped listening to the threats a long time ago. It doesn’t work, it’s not helpful to anyone. It’s very stressful just to listen to it as an outsider. I even heard a dad in a shop threatening a toddler with getting a smack if he didn’t do as told. My 18 and 20-year old were honestly shocked, and it never happens. It truly opened their eyes, so I guess something good came out of it.

@Summersummersun - responding the first time happens when there have been consequences for not doing so and when it's made clear that the big problem is 'not listening to parent' as opposed to running away or demanding candy in the supermarket, or whatever the child did.

@mathanxiety I always give consequences! I am forever threatening the loss of something and see it through.

I used to nanny, and later teach, in Germany. The behaviour was no different. Parents could still be wishy-washy, make excuses for bad behaviour instead of deal with it, or also be super strict, or somewhere in between. Just like in the UK.

Ugh, I disagree with Scandinavian kids being well behaved and/or parents not pandering to them. Whenever I’ve visited home in Sweden I have witnessed absolutely appalling behaviour in shops from kids not asking, not begging, but DEMANDING treats and parents giving in. I’ve met many rascals both here and in Sweden and at least here people attempt to discipline. A very stern voice and a consequence. Back home I’ve witnessed eye rolls and a lot of excuses like “he’s tired/hungry/being silly” or parents even asking me to share bad behaviour I’ve experienced myself. Don’t worry about my parenting, sort your kids out instead.

This is my experience of kids back home, it doesn’t mean it applies to everyone, obviously. I’m not a perfect parent by any means but my kids will be well behaved in public or there will be consequences and they do NOT want to face my wrath.

Another thing which I actually think is more important than we might think, is that here we without fail would eat dinner together around the table every night with our children. Same food (some variations if it’s spicy etc) but we talk, and they are just expected to interact and not jump down as soon as they are finished.

@thunderhoney I actually wished we had moved there when our son was young and it was easy to do so- I think life in scandi land with young families is terrific - tax is high- but you get quite a lot for it and it shows. I also saw a lot more 'father' involvement with young kids , a lot more men in town on their own with toddlers and teens than I ever see here.

Must admit we came back for various practical reasons but given the shit show here I'm really missing Copenhagen and my frequent jaunts to Sweden too.

I can honestly say I never once saw a parent shout 'oi ,come back here you little shits' etc - as I've witnessed here.

My child is French and he definitely likes to throw food.

And the French children I used to au pair for were absolutely feral. One of them memorably took a shit in the children's playground.

All kids are little shits in shops sometimes, it’s kind of universal I think..But yeah, some parents have gone too far in not saying no. They’ve sort of missed the whole point. Good luck when their kids are teenagers I always think..

You can always spot the foreign children in Spain. The local children out to lunch with relatives can be given a table to themselves, and help each other eg cutting up food for the youngest , chatting to each other, no whining ,no food refusal, no tantrums or arguments or throwing food. Very socialised from an early age. Remarkable.

Yep. As per the usual mumsnet rhetoric Europeans are better in every way - slimmer, more stylish, more civil, funnier, cleverer, better parents, and so on and so forth as nauseam.

Or they’re just people like we are. Varied. Some good some bad. I’ve looked after British, French, Polish, and American children and found them much like British children. Some of them are lovely and wonderful. Some are naughty and annoying. Most are somewhere in between!

I don’t even see a ‘don’t do that’. Children where I am in London are basically begged to behave and their tantrums are met with more choices, more pleading.

You can tell the parents are purposefully raising them to be extremely entitled adults.

Well German kids are not 'better' but they are definitely encouraged to be more independent and self sufficient than in the UK. When we lived in Berlin all the kids were walking to school on their own by 7 or 8 years old. They were doing 5-day residentials in kindergarten. They're not supervised as much anywhere and there isn't the same level of child-centred activities, it was more the whole family doing a sport or hobby together.

I lived in Germany for a while. The primary age children I encountered were very badly behaved!

I'm in Germany and can assure you that you get your fair share of little terrors here and also of parents just ignoring their kids as they tear the place apart (i.e. soft play) I was really self conscious at first that we were the loud Brits in the village but the houses behind us all have noisy kids and crying babies so it doesn't worry me as much now. In fact the other day I could hear a dad yelling at 6am! Ha! It's not just us!

I find many British parents are just too soft. They don't want to cause a scene by scolding and upsetting the children. There are also a lot of helicopter parents - very evident on the playgrounds.

Today we were at a large event with a Punch & Judy show. 50+ kids and their parents gathered around on the grass watching and one 4/5 yr old boy at the very front kept standing up and grabbing at the puppets. His mother was off to the side and either a) didn't care too much or b) didn't want to make a scene in front of everyone because she didn't get up from the side to remove her child and stop him from doing it again, but she just kind of mouthed and gestured at him to stop and sit down. Did he? No! He kept bloody grabbing at the puppets.

That really wasn’t my experience! The Canadian ones are bigger for sure, but the kids’ behaviour was about the same in all of them.

Agree... British are so shit blah blah

Been on holiday twice this summer and seen good and bad behaviour from kids of various nationalities.

Lasting memory of a small French toddler being followed round the buffet breakfast crying (I think with tiredness) whilst his parents just kept offering different food options. He clearly wasn't interested and needed a nap or just other distraction.

Spaniard here. Just spend a month in Spain with my nephews ages 2 and 5. We were all day in the beach, they were a nightmare, shouting, throwing sand and needing our constant attention. I don’t agree that European children are better behaved, maybe German children, certainly not spanish ones 🤣

Surely in that scenario you hold your child to stop them running behind the car from the start? The fact that you actually let him ignore you 3 times while repeatedly running behind a moving car is the problem here. I guess it wasn't great to shout and swear but that isn't the worst bit.

If the French do so much better at childrearing (i.e., Bringing up Bebe), wouldn't we expect French adults to be way more kind, polite and well-adjusted than other nationalities? I can't see this. I'm not saying they're worse, just that I don't thing they're miles ahead of any other nationality.

Another thing I noticed is that the adults (and children) were much less overly polite like us Brits. Much less waiting for others to walk through doors first, much more accidental barging into others and not apologising profusely like we would. Swings and roundabouts?

today in a shop both my DS’ were standing on something they shouldn’t have, so DH asked them to get off. They ignored him, and when he physically moved them, 3 year old got in a strop and the 6 year old blew a raspberry at him!

@Summersummersun I dont know if its difference of country or not, but I'm American and if that had been my kids I would have immediately removed them from the shop. I still remember my youngest throwing a tantrum in the shop, I picked him up and we walked out. Was it convenient for me to do that? No, but the next time he started acting up and I said "we will leave if you dont stop" he KNEW I meant it and he stopped.

Can't really comment on the different nationalities but there's a reluctance to say no to children. For example my daughter (3) was asking for ice cream when we were at a cafe with a friend. I knew friend didn't want her child to have ice cream (she never lets him which is fair enough, her decision). Therefore I told my daughter she couldn't have an ice-cream today. Friend immediately started lying saying they had run out of ice cream! It's not the first time I've heard this kind of thing either, people coming up with very creative lies to justify why their child can't have something. It must be exhausting. Or alternatively they let the child do what they want every time, resulting in ridiculously inconvenient arrangements that just cause problems for everyone.

I'm a believer in making the important rules clear and enforcing consistently, and letting the child have as much freedom as possible within that, only intervening if it's properly dangerous (life and death not just falling over) or damaging property or hurting someone. Whereas what some parents seem to do is helicopter all the small stuff but he unable to enforce rules on the big stuff