To be actually really worried about you? NHS related

[Itsonthestairs]

As a highly skilled NHS nurse of 15 years I had to leave my job due to the stress and not being able to provide the care I wanted to, I was burnt out following covid (my mum died), I have definaly save a fair few lifes in my clinical time, I loved my job and I was good at it (emergency department background). Reading the posts on MN has really upset me recently, the disrespect, dislike and darn right hatred for healthcare professionals really worries me. My friends are on their knees and this abuse doesn't help, people are getting crap care because there is no staff and this awful attitude is just adding fuel to the fire. I'm really worried about you, me and our families future healthcare.

And yet here you are.

This attitude doesn't help improve the NHS. I've worked in it for over 30 years. Polarising it as either an untouchable monument or completely awful will not bring about desperately needed change (particularly the former view).

The NHS isn't working in its current form. I've seen so many reorganisations over time, it's endless, and it's an industry in itself, costing the taxpayer billions over the years. I truly think the time has come to look at other European models of care.

One tiny example. I'm having an investigation today (MRI). I'll be seen on time and will have my results in my hand before going home. A process which takes 3 - 4 weeks in the UK (routine scan to receiving results). I could give so many more examples, but the reality is we do need fundamental change in how services are delivered. I don't think any political party will dare to do it though, it'll just be an endless cycle of throwing money at it with no accountability for improved standards and outcomes, or austerity.

Some of the recent threads have been very ott. I mean there are ways to say you had a very poor experience without calling staff awful names.

The NHS is on its knees due to lack of funding but other factors like poor staff planning. But I honestly think people are super stressed out and anxious about the energy and food costs crisis and that is also coming out in mn posts. I know mn can be harsh but there seems to have been a change of tone.

There are crap people in life though.spme really nasty people.some unfortunately make it the the nhs. It does and will happen moreso now.therd is less means testing,less funding and bother to eek the horrible out.
This sadly has been going on for years in mental health and social care amd vulnerable sectors.because it's an underfunded under cared for sector(comparatively) and the ones who are evil,seek power and are horrid have known they can get away with it in mental health units and care. That's why there has been so much abuse. I know of and have witnessed the most horrid of staff in those places.it would make people shiver if they saw them in ordinary wards.
But there are still nasty people.they do exist in nhs.
And as tho vs get worse this will become more common.

The ones that get it right are magnificiant.but ignoring the too often evil isn't and hasn't helped.especially to our most vulnerable.and people won't believe it enough until they seen or experienced it.

Also the UK doesn't appear to have a fabulous track record when it comes to the privatisation of anything, when you consider value for money and customer experience.
Social care is for the most part privatised, it is in crisis, not enough staff, not enough beds and especially very few true rehab or step down beds, this has had a massive impact on the functioning of the NHS and especially emergency care and the Ambulance services.
If there are no social care beds or care packages available outside the NHS, remember that the NHS and social care are two completely seperate entities, then people can not be moved home or to another setting. If they can't be moved, then the bed remains taken and someone in a cubicle ( once they are lucky enough to get to that point ) or the back of an ambulance, cannot then go into that bed.
The NHS runs its bed capacity very high all the time, and during periods like Winter, dangerously high, so there is literally no slack in the system ever and unlike private hospitals, has to take everyone.
Reenablement teams ( social services) and home from hospital teams ( NHS) are tiny in comparison to the demographic they are expected to support in most geographical areas. They work really well for those medically fit but who just need a bit of short term support to get back to living independently.
We also used to have teams who worked trying to prevent unneccessary admissions to hospital, these seem to have fallen out of favour, but if you work in the NHS you see things come back around, so who know's, some bright spark might decide its worth funding that again ?

And i know there might bevthe best of excuses for staff behaving shorter or seeemingly less caring.but this also isn't the ill person's fault. And in there most desperate bearing the brunt of this mood isn't nice no matter the valid excuses.

The Dutch system is very good. It is a compulsory insurance based system where existing conditions and age are not taken into account.

Premiums are around €1400/year with a cap on individual costs of around €400/year per adult. There are various income related allowances etc for low income households. Children are covered by their parents' policy.

This has to be seen in the context of other taxation and welfare policies.

The Dutch system also has to be seen in the context of Dutch attitudes to personal responsibilty for health. My experience of the Netherlands was that people were generally healthy and health conscious.

In the UK A&E and the Police are the services of last resort. People turn to these services because they cant get help elsewhere.

IMO the problem is not the funding of these front line resources but the lack of support for mental health, addiction and chronic physical health problems. If these problems were supported properly and effectively then we would see far fewer people turning to accute services in a crisis.

Providing proper support mental health, addiction and chronic physical health problems is unglamorous. Tends not to have quick fix results. Doesnt provide politicians of any hue with good photo opportunities.

When we have good care from the NHS, we take it for granted. But a bad experience when we're vulnerable and scared, is always going to make a feel impression on us, and be something that we are going to be vocal about.

My DD is a very caring and conscientious nurse, so when my mum was treated appallingly by nurses when she was in hospital (witnessed by me) I was appalled and shocked. She is paralysed by a stroke, yet drinks were just left on her side cupboard on the side where she is paralysed, and taken away again when she'd (obviously) not had as much as a sip. When I went to the nurse's station (at pains to be reasonable, calm and friendly, though I wasn't feeling it) to explain (again) that my mother is unable to independently eat and drink in bed, the nurse's were abrupt, annoyed and not remotely interested in listening or changing anything. I can't put across adequately how grumpy and callous they were.

Yeah, there are loads of great doctors and nurses.

There are also loads of shit ones and unfortunately when you’re at your most vulnerable a shit experience can be extremely traumatic.

I’ve had some very good experiences with compassionate and helpful HCP but I’ve also been scarred for life by some truly awful ones. I guess those stay with me…

Often chronic health conditions are dismissed for years while a patient has to live with a very poor quality of life - and mental health can be ignored unless at absolute crisis point. Anti depressants are handed out for conditions that should be treated holistically. So as a patient one can run out of patience.

Lots of posts like this recently, If I were a conspiracy theorist I’d be suspicious that the govt are planting the seeds for an acceptance of more privatisation of the NHS.

3 years ago the my friend's wife died in hospital after a relatively minor operation on a bone fracture. She was killed by the "care" he was given. That isn't just an allegation, it is borne out by the investigations carried out after my friend raised a complaint. It has been acknowledged that a series of events, involving multiple members of staff including the consultant, anaesthetist and nurses caused her death. The hospital say they will learn from this, but nobody ever apologised to her spouse. If just one person had taken an interest in her, or had even listened to concerns raised by her visiting family, or had taken action on the last day when her sister told a nurse that she was talking rubbish - she might be alive today.

Some nhs workers are pond scum too, @LikeAStar1994 they’re not some super human, wonder race like some would have you believe. As for the whole NHS hero thing, never heard or seen anything as cringeworthy in my life. I have no idea why some of them chose jobs working with people, never mind helping them.

I had a magnificent room, a lovely meal, and nearly died at 2am with internal bleeding and v little medical intervention that left me incapacitated for weeks. I’d never have surgery in a private hospital ever again.

GP receptionists aren't NHS staff. GP surgeries are privately owned.

@QueenCamilla "There were plenty of them around and not one with a chance to give me some pain relief (apparently ain't a moment for that in the 13h I was there) or triage despite me being in acute visible distress."

Don't blame the nurses. They don't give out medication without being instructed by a doctor.

"Only strange how it all appeared (plus a cup of sweet tea, somewhere to lie down on, my first triage and even a Doctor ) when I called for an ambulance from the waiting room..."

Well your name says it all doesn't it. An entitled drama queen. You called an overworked service because you felt that your needs were more important than anyone else's.
More important than a child with suspected meningitis? More important than an old lady who's fallen and broken her hip and laid for 6 hours on the floor in her bedroom? More important than a road traffic accident victim with multiple head injuries? More important than someone unresponsive found collapsed in the street?
It's this entitlement attitude that's wrecking our NHS.

"I was outright tortured in the A&E for 13 hours"
"Nurses were laughing and drinking tea while I was dying"

Oh get over yourself.

If they gave you (sweet) tea then you weren't that ill. If you had been seriously ill they would have a) seen you sooner
b) been a 'nil by mouth' in case you needed an anaesthetic

It is the doctors that prioritise patients not the nurses. They have to use their skills and knowledge to make unenviable decisions. They do the best they can.

Ah, posted too soon! I think that the problems in the NHS are deep and wide-ranging. Throwing money at it is not the answer. It's about management, proper use of resources and culture. There are great staff struggling to stay afloat, but it has to be acknowledged that there are some who fall far short of reasonable standards. My friend's wife died because nursing staff falsified information on her charts because they couldn't be bothered to properly record her bowel movements. She died because a tube wasn't put in her throat for surgery. She died because there wasn't effective handover between staff when they changed shifts so nobody took notice of the fact that she was clearly deteriorating, even when her family kept going to the station to raise concerns. Finally she died on the last day because even though she was delirious, a nurse just glanced at her and told her relative that the doctor would visit later. She drifted into sleep and died before then. She went in for a bone fracture to be operated on.
I feel for the genuinely good people in the NHS - how do they carry on when surrounded by people who don't care or incompetent? It must be massively demoralising and stressful.

@GnomeDePlume I think it would be interesting to see a break down for the reasons for attendance at A&E. Apart from anything else, you would be able to see if there was anything that could be done to prevent any of those attendances, which other services could help reduce those attendances ?

Private healthcare only benefits those wealthy enough to be able to afford it.
What we need is a government that priorities the NHS (rather than deliberately running it into the ground).
Blaming frontline (or any other) NHS workers is misguided and unfair.
Blame years and years of underfunding.

I think you have to recognise that most people have good and bad experiences of care, just as they have good and bad experiences of education or transport or grocery shopping. NHS employees are individuals and some are amazingly good and some shockingly poor. If you genuinely want it to be better you need to listen to both experiences and learn from them.

The money in the NHS is wasted by all the management. It’s also wasted on varying initiatives that should not be funded by the NHS. This money would be best used elsewhere, like in MH care.

I’ve had nothing but good care from NHS. A Recent visit to A&E with DH, in Triage then taken through to the cubicles after several hours. One patient collapsed in front of me, I was about to call for help but the receptionist had seen it and he was taken through to resus. In the meantime several tannoy messages came up, Dr xxxx to resus, the nurses must be colour coded to particular skills as calls for ‘Nurse Red/Orange/Green to cubicle x, came through the tannoy.
At in cubicles, first it looked as though doctors and senior nurses were just stood looking at screens and chatting, I then realised they were all actually working well to control the chaos, one doctor, a Consultant was directing care from the front, yes in front of a screen but he sent other doctors to patients who then reported back to him. a senior nurse was directing nurses to where they were needed the most, he came to do DH obs as he was concerned about the last set, got him more pain relief.
Some patients shouldn’t have been there, some were abusive, some were drunk, drugged, some were there for trivial reasons, several left after an announcement sayin to expect xx no of hours waiting times.

I’m afraid I’m another that has lost all faith in the NHS having witnessed my DFs appalling (lack of) treatment following his cancer diagnosis last year. The delays, lack of action, negligence and apathy
that preceded his death will always haunt me.

My DD is currently on a waiting list to see a gastroenterologist having been suffering with severe abdo pains for 6 months. It’s at least another four month wait. Most days she’s doubled over in pain. She’s missed loads of school and lost a lot of weight.
We are considering going private - ironically something we are only in a position to do due to my dad leaving us some money…

We are supposed to be one of the richest countries in the world FFS.

Looking at the state of our energy, water and public transport industries privatising clearly isn’t the answer. But something needs to be done. Preferably involving a government which isn’t full of Conservative MPs profiteering from the private healthcare industry.

our expectations are so low that we express gratitude for the most basic level of care our taxes/government borrowing have funded

This.

@BirmaBrite "I think it would be interesting to see a break down for the reasons for attendance at A&E. Apart from anything else, you would be able to see if there was anything that could be done to prevent any of those attendances, which other services could help reduce those attendances ?"

I could not agree more.

Some towns/cities need a 'drunk tank' to siphon off morons who choose to pour excessive amounts of alcohol down their necks every Fri/Sat night. This would stop them clogging up A & E.
However, I doubt you would get any doctors or nurses queueing up to staff it.

The care my mum received at times from doctors was so disgusting I still feel angry and sad. She has passed away now but the arrogance and rudeness was unnecessary.
I am not convinced NHS staff are working as hard as they could be to move down A and E queues...unpopular but true.

Our GP, my fathers cancer care has been faultless - brilliant staff etc. You do expect healthcare professionals to have a degree of empathy esp if people are scared or frightened. My hospital birth was dreadful because of one midwife. The others literally blundered about and were over stretched and unable to care for anyone. Is their fault- no but it is the management or nhs bosses. Some individuals are rude and it’s not on. If I had spoke to my pupils , parents or slt as a teacher then I would have been pulled up.