Primary schools and childcare arent designed for 2 full-time working parents

[Greywall2]

In 2019, 7 out of 10 households with dependent children had two working parents - ons survey . After covid and with the cost of living crisis, it's likely there has been an increase.

Primary school opening times are between 9am and 3pm (give or take 15 minutes), but a standard working day is 9 till 5. For children with 2 working parents this means that without wrapping around childcare or very flexible working agreements in place, both cannot work full time hours.

Reasonably priced wrap around care is in place for some schools, but in many schools the only option for out of hours care is to employ a childminder or kids club to care for children out of hours. Nurseries tend to be open 8 - 6 and give more flexibility and by secondary school children are able to go to and from school by themselves.

AIBU to think that the government should assist primary schools to allow them to provide wrap around care? I am NOT saying that teachers should be available between 8am and 5 or 6pm, but that there should be a childcare option available.

Children are (rightly of course!) are legally required to have an education, but the timings of the provision mean that parents can't work in certain jobs and financially support their family. The parent/parents who can't afford wrap around care may get fired for not being at work on time and the parent/parents who don't drop off and pickup their children on time are punished as there is no one to look after them (of course as teachers have gone home).

Of course life is unfair and people should budget for childcare costs, but unexpected things happen such as the rise in energy prices or interest rate rises and the childcare options for primary aged children are seem very restrictive.

Its not just about carers though. You will need younger people to deliver your shopping, supply your energy, produce your food. Every generation is reliant on the next and for a period of time the next generation ate young and require education and childcare.

I’m hoping and praying that voluntary euthanasia becomes legal and your child doesn’t have to wipe my bum in my care home.
So you are hoping that as soon as you need any e.g. operation post-retirement age (which could potentially lead to you having another 20 years of happy independent life) you will be bumped off purely to save a few weeks of care??
What if you develop a mental illness in ten years' time and need inpatient care? Will you ask to be euthanised then? Or hope that psychiatric nurses are around, with the jobs being filled by the 11 year olds of today?

Why do you need young people to deliver your shopping? Most of the shopping deliveries I get are delivered by drivers aged 50 to 72 years old. I know the oldest ones age as he told me.

I’d like to have options. At the moment, there are no options and I’ve seen the inside of too many care homes to want to end up there.

Yes, I’m aware of that. Everyone paying for their education is part of the social contract. r paying for their childcare is not, and simply repeating “we need young people” isn’t going to help sell it as a new introduction to the social contract.

And for the final time, I am actually for high tax high provision society. But I think to get others on board you’d need to ensure that service provision across the board for everyone improves, not just stuff parents would like.

I think there are much more urgent issues to address.

@rainbowmilk those taxpayers reluctant to pay for nurturing the next generation and supporting parents to work, need to think more long term ie. whose gonna wipe their arse when they no longer can? Or pay into your pension scheme when you are taking out?

We need to support people to have kids as the ageing population is a ticking time bomb. Funding childcare is one way to increase tax take AND build the pipeline of future tax payers and carers of a bulging elderly population.

I hate how short sighted our population has become (not you!). We need to invest in the longer term prosperity of this country!

My post on the previous page with the numbered points covered pretty much all of this.

but how sustainable is this? Each generation must have more and more children like some giant pyramid scheme… unless we vastly change our lifestyles not even the earth will sustain it. Climate change is already causing problems

It would actually help more if more families helped look after elderly relatives. It used to be common until recently. No one wants to do it any more.

Thanks for your anecdotal evidence. My Ocado drivers are almost all in their 20s and 30s.

Not more children than previous generations, but enough to keep the pension pots topped up and vital services staffed.

Why is this so difficult for people to grasp?

But older people can do the job as well. It does not need young people.

@Whyaretheynotdoinganything because @rainbowmilk is going for voluntary euthanasia as soon as she needs any care.
We only need replacement levels of births. We can to some extent get the workers we need through immigration but since a) their home countries need them too and b) we need a lot of them to have familiarity with English and with UK culture that's not a complete answer.

Sure, and what happens when those older people retire or die? Who will back fill those jobs if we stop having children?

I disagree that most jobs need any “familiarity with English and with UK culture”. I live in London and half the people I come across in my work life, social life and in day to day interactions was not born in the UK. They manage just fine.

The real problem with immigration is that the voting population of this country is right leaning and has been brainwashed into thinking that immigration is a bad thing. No political party will ever win and election on a promise to relax immigration rules.

@antelopevalley Responses show just how short sighted and selfish people not living this reality are.

so what happens when those anecdotal drivers retire? Who replaces them? Any chance it's the children of today?

And re caring for elderly relatives, perhaps it would happen more if people could afford to live on once wage so a family unit could have one adult at home able to take on caring for elderly relatives. It's not simple reluctance to do it, often it's simply not possible within time constraints of working, family life and trying to care for another adult if it's more than an hour a few times a week.

I lived in France. This is certainly not the case there. The school bus picked children up at 8.30 for a 9am start, it left to bring them them back at 3..30 or 4. Some of the teenagers did longer hours.

the schools closed when the children left in the afternoon. They did not run holiday clubs,,people made their own arrangements. Some of the communes (towns) had holiday activities, mainly families made their own arrangements with relatives.

@RagingWoke , Of course, we need younger workers as well.
Most people who need care do not need full-time care. A friend worked full-time and looked after her mum. Seeing to her mum before work, she popped back at lunchtime or had meals in wheels pop in when she could not, then looked after her in the evening. When people need 24-hour care you are usually talking about dementia and that is a whole different kettle of fish.

It would actually help more if more families helped look after elderly relatives. It used to be common until recently. No one wants to do it any more.

It's not just that "no one wants to do it". It's been pointed out many times on this thread that most households need two wages coming in to make ends meet. Most people aren't in a position to quit their jobs so they can provide care for an elderly relative.

@OperaStation - I have a DS who needs a PA/carer/mentor and TAs at his school. I expect him to be able to live independently when he's older but some of his age-mates won't be able to so will continue to need care when they are adults.
He needs TAs and teachers who speak excellent English and are familiar to a fairly good extent with the culture he's living in - he's not great (as in fact most children aren't) at explaining what on earth he's talking about and the TAs that know which particular computer game he's referring to are some of the best.
The same will be true of adults with learning disabilities.
Adults who need care in their home are obviously going to need carers who speak enough English to communicate with them. Clearly once people have lived in the UK for a while they will know enough to e.g. buy the right shopping or know which foods an elderly person likes to eat, but even moving to the UK from another English-speaking country you could make mistakes at first given the dissimilarity of different Englishes.
Many new-to-the-UK doctors are caught out by patients referring enigmatically to the body parts they are having problems with.
I'm not quite sure why this is controversial? "Familiarity with English and with UK culture" does not mean "British born and bred". It does mean you can't just say "let's ship 1000 Filipino/Spanish/Canadian nurses over here for tomorrow".

An HCP from another country had no idea what my mum meant when she talked about her athlete's foot.

Oh well your friend did it so it's unanimous then!

It doesn't have to be 24 hour care before help is needed. And just because one person managed to help her mum while working doesn't mean it's an option for everyone. Let's take a fictitious example, parent needs care at home, an hour morning and evening to get up/dressed and then ready for bed. Adult child would like to help, but works full time 37 hours a week, has an hour or more commute each way plus dc (and limited childcare because provision is shit and unaffordable) and that hour morning and evening isn't a small ask and would mean parent needing care is being woken and up at 5/6am and then helped to get ready for bed at 7/8pm. Adult child doing the caring is burnt out before they know it.

It is not always possible I agree.
Because of the lack of carers, many people living in their own homes are got out of bed very early or late and put to bed very early. Early evening is not unusual. So do not assume that your scenario is not a reality just because you have paid carers.
My friend helped her mum move close to her so it was possible. I do know not everyone can move.

So a Canadian TA couldn’t look after your son? How ridiculous.