Hoarding and filthy house of mother

[Hoarding]

My mum has always been a hoarder but it’s got significantly worse in the last 10 years. Hoarding newspapers, envelopes, food scraps (nothing is allowed to be thrown, everything will be reheated etc) tiny bits of string, foil etc. You get the idea. It’s got so bad to the point where the house is actually filthy, like properly gross (think fruit flies on literally everything, food remnants caked into the floor, maggots etc) Strangely some parts of house (the bits she doesn’t use basically) are vaguely tidy (but def not clean) like the living room.

She lives alone and to be fair used to have a cleaner but got rid of her about a year ago. I can safely say there’s not been any cleaning done on her part since.

Im pretty sure she’s got inattentive ADHD but I really don’t know how to help her.

for a bit of background into where her priorities lie, im
severely allergic to cats, luckily only if the hair gets in my eyes but my eyes basically completely close up and I get all wheezy. Well this has always been the case but we had 3 cats growing up. Yup, having cats was more important than my safety. There’s a long list of various things like that that have happened over the years.

Anyway, I’ve come down to stay with her for a week with my 2 kids as she’s always wanting us to come stay (but doesn’t actually want to engage with the kids) but my god, I’m scared for my baby’s health with the crap he’s accessing from the floor (he doesn’t crawl yet but he rolls around all over the place and obv everything goes in his mouth)

what I’m asking is AIBU for being really hurt by mum’s hoarding and filthy house? And if not, what can I do to help her? She’s well aware her house is filthy but she refuses to do anything about it.

YABU: her house is none of your business, leave her to it. Or actually try help her.

YANBU: that’s really out of order to treat you and your children like that.

Yeah nothing is going to be a good enough excuse for putting children, especially a baby in a house where there are rotting food and maggots. You are being extremely selfish and negligent there.

YABU unfortunately it is her life.

My mum is the same and there is nothing I can do or say that will help her and I end up getting more stressed trying to do so as she pretends she wants my help.

I have just made it clear that I will not be bringing her DGC over at all whilst it is a hazard.

It may mean you see your mum less which is very unfortunate but you have to put yourself and your DCs first.

Remember it is a MH issue and to not take it personally if she’s choosing her crap over you and the DGC.

I absolutely agree with you that addiction is often involved, but I don't agree with you that there is an automatic short lived pleasure.

It's assumed that there must be, because that's the model of addiction we understand, and tbf is the common picture with hoarders. But it isn't the only one.

One reason why hoarding is considered so difficult to treat is because we use models that make assumptions, and everyone must fit into the model.
Those who don't are then considered either deluded or not 'proper' hoarders, or the condition is untreatable.

The reason we don't try to treat hording using addiction treatments is because it's already been seen not to work.

I'm currently working with a CBT system developed by one of the notable experts in front line delivery. Someone I respect hugely and have high hopes about.
It is also based on a psychology model.

That model makes assumptions that everyone when they imagine their perfect room, decorated and furnished as they'd like, will experience a good feeling.

It's a very reasonable reasonable assumption, and came as an unpleasant surprise to discover I don't experience that at all.

I'm not a 'not proper' hoarder. The model isn't a 'bad' model.

Trying to force all elements of the addiction model onto hoarding, is as mistaken as trying to force all elements of the OCD model onto hoarding was.

Op, I asked the questions to get a feel for the situation, and if others were aware or you're on your own with it. You’ve sort of answered that but it’s not clear if others know her kitchen is a hygiene issue and trust her to work around it, or if they have no idea and would run gagging if they knew?

If they don’t know, how do you think she would feel if they found out that’s what was going on?

If there are siblings then the future is potentially several people’s problem rather than only yours, as eventually all of you will potentially have to deal with the outcome. Part of why I asked, is looking at if you can do a more than one pronged approach.

I think you’re correct about potential paralysis, it’s common. Their situation gets out of hand and for many the answer is to do nothing, as everything feels pointless.
It isn’t, but IME it takes unrelenting energy and humour to get someone who’s hit pointless peak, to see it differently and work with you, especially if it's particularly dense or dirty.

The fact she’s not engaging with the children at the house but is outside it, is a huge pointer.
You’ve probably hit on something that she hasn’t had a great formative relationship with parents, but possibly not bad enough to know that and automatically treat her relationship with her own children very differently?
You and your children do appear to be able to have a relationship with your mum without them needing to stay there? At which point it becomes you wanting to be able to have them have a happy going to ‘stay with gran’ relationship. That may be possible, but not if you’re equally paralyzed by it all.

So you either have recognize it isn’t reasonable to inflict that level of poor hygiene on your children, or be ready to get stuck in and make it hygienic enough.

For me it would be both, but we are all where we are at any given time.
Outside of the magic wand answers, what would you like to happen here?

You need to separate your feelings of hurt from the fact that she is seriously mentally unwell.

It surprises me you took your children there for a week knowing how she is.

She needs professional help but she needs to want to change. Focus your efforts on talking to her about this and try to leave your children with someone else when you visit.

If she does not see any issues, I’d be contacting social services and mental health charities for advice.

Until she agrees to help, nothing will change.

I said inattentive ADHD alone

And then you wrote a long post agreeing. You have that PLUS a hoarding issue.

I would never bring my children to stay in a hoarders house, it's not fair on the kids.
Get your kids out of there and go stay in a hotel.

You can meet up with her outside of her house.

Agree

Ok so all the people claiming I’m selfish and negligent to my children, how do I go about saying to mum I’m not staying at hers ever again? I have the biggest, most insane fear of abandonment from her and fear this would be the final one, like I’d never hear from her again and not sure if I could survive that.

You tell your mother the truth and get help through therapy. That's all you can do. Your children's welfare must come first. That house is a massive danger to them.

I'm not telling you you're being 'selfish and negligent to your children', because I don't think kicking you in the situation is helpful. I am saying you 'either have recognize it isn’t reasonable to inflict that level of poor hygiene on your children, or be ready to get stuck in and make it hygienic enough.'

I've also said for me it would be both, but we are all where we are at any given time.
and outside of the magic wand answers, what would you like to happen here?

I am left wondering if actually you are disinterested in looking solutions that might give you what you say you want? Perhaps what you actually want is different from what you say you think you want?

No one can tell you how to tell your mother X and it not result in Y, because only you know your mother and how she does or doesn't react. What people can do is tell you what they think is reasonable and hope for the best.
What we can all tell you, and you have told us, is the situation is unhealthy for your children.

I know this post is aimed at other PPs

But honey what you say to mum is
I love you mum and want to stay but your house isn't really ok for babies and young children. Look mum we can help you clear but I can't bring my DCs to stay again much as I love seeing you. Please let us help
You clear it

You book into B&B close to your Mum's house and explain why. Then just have days out, but if she wants you to stay then you need to tell her she needs to get a cleaner in before your visits with your DC. People aren't saying go NO Contact, just refuse to stay with your DC in a filthy house.

I agree with @RobertsRadio. Hoarding is a mental illness and a pretty horrible one at that, but I think it's even harder on the families than the hoarder themselves, because you can see that in a relatively short space of time they could make their lives a thousand times better, but they won't change it, and you're powerless to do anything about it.

Control what you can control. Stay in a B&B, spend quality time together.

It takes 7 years, I have been told for a child's immune system to matture.

I hope you do not subject your kids to the conditions you described, especially your baby.

No idea how you thought writing on a public forum that your baby was rolling around on a floor covered in old food and maggots was going to end with positive feedback?
However, in the short term, get your kids out of there and into a nearby bnb. Blame your allergies if you don't want to tell your mum her house is too grim for human habitation.
Next, report her to the local fire service, hoarders houses are ridiculously dangerous in the event of a fire so she needs her smoke alarms checking. They can visit and refer her to the council for appropriate help. You could even say you're a concerned neighbour if needs be.
I empathise with the need for approval but you also don't want your kids to model the people-pleasing behaviour in the long term. Good luck.

Sorry just to clarify the maggots were confined to a small space and gotten rid of straight away but it’s the fruit flies that persist. I keep being told that fruit flies aren’t dangerous but are they??

No, I don't think so. Just unpleasant.

OP, I do understand how unrelentingly painful it is when you have never felt safe and loved by your mother. It hurts now as an adult and it taps into a deeper unsealed trauma from childhood. I’m so sorry.

One thing you might consider, though, is that whether you stay at her house or not, you will never get that love and care you crave from her. Perhaps staying at her house or trying to placate her will actually be making you feel worse, since you’re still imagining on some level that if you can do everything to please her and be the absolutely perfect daughter, you will get the love you need from her. Tragically this isn’t how it works. On the other hand, if you start setting boundaries: sorry mum, I can’t bring the children to stay as it isn’t safe for them, then you are helping yourself move on in a tiny way, accepting the reality that this isn’t someone who can give you the love you need from her for reasons that are everything to do with her and nothing to do with you, and giving yourself and your children the care and attention to your health that you need. You and they are just as important as she is, and your needs matter just as much as hers.

Book a local hotel now, tell her you're moving out because her house isn't safe for your child and she can come and see you at the hotel or in the park etc. offer help if she wants it and otherwise leave her to it.

OP it isn’t a case of if you stay elsewhere that you will lose your mum forever.

You can still maintain your relationship.

Those are your fears but they aren’t reality.

You need to consider your kids’ welfare over your fears.

You’re repeating your mother’s neglect of your needs growing up, if you subject them to her hoarding & squalor.

Do you want them to feel the way you do about having your needs neglected by your mum?

Loving someone doesn’t mean doing everything they want you to do - esp if that causes harm to you or your DC.

Sorry not to sugarcoat it. You can change the routine of always staying there.

It doesn’t equate rejection / abandonment for either of you.

I think therapy may help you navigate it all though FWIW.

Good luck

Which would have zero effect. Hoarders aren't rational when it comes to their hoarding.

None of us can say magic words to make this alright for you OP and it sadly sounds as if it has never been alright for you. You are on glass around a woman who sounds as if she cannot acknowledge your children's basic needs in the way she could not acknowledge yours. This is very hard, but going along with the status quo isn't working either, is it? Your first post on this was I think the real reflection of how things are in the house. You know it isn't OK.

My view is that you should remove your children from an unsafe environment and be truthful with her as to why. You can (as others have suggested) make it clear you will still see her, but not in her house as it is. I know you're terrified that she will at that point reject you, but that is on her and you can't control that. You do need therapy to come to terms with the past and the current issues. You may feel powerless but you are an adult and do have power, most importantly to shield your children.

I was taken as a child to visit my great aunt, my grandmother's older sister. She was as rich as Croesus and on the surface the house was OK, huge place, full of beautiful antiques. I ended up with gastroenteritis after the meal there and was really quite ill, as in hospital. My grandmother went back a few days later, inspected the kitchen and basically ripped her head off, because it was squalid and she knew that was what had made me ill. My Nan was so upset, although she really didn't know beforehand and I was never taken again. You do know, so please take the situation seriously.

Your fear of being abandoned by your mother is for you to deal with. You should not be using your very young children as tools to appease your mother with.

Making children stay in a dangerous, fly and maggot infested house with unsafe food is neglectful parenting, and there is absolutely no excuse for it. First priority is to safeguard your children. You need to get them to a clean, safe place urgently, and stop maki g excuses.

Once your children are safe, address your mental health.

You can only move on to looking at helping your mum when both you and your children are safe.

Could your mum stay with you instead?

I knew someone that was a hoarder. Their car was a mess too never cleaned and they smoked too ot.

Really unpleasant way to live. Not attractive to others and very sad.