Hoarding and filthy house of mother

[Hoarding]

My mum has always been a hoarder but it’s got significantly worse in the last 10 years. Hoarding newspapers, envelopes, food scraps (nothing is allowed to be thrown, everything will be reheated etc) tiny bits of string, foil etc. You get the idea. It’s got so bad to the point where the house is actually filthy, like properly gross (think fruit flies on literally everything, food remnants caked into the floor, maggots etc) Strangely some parts of house (the bits she doesn’t use basically) are vaguely tidy (but def not clean) like the living room.

She lives alone and to be fair used to have a cleaner but got rid of her about a year ago. I can safely say there’s not been any cleaning done on her part since.

Im pretty sure she’s got inattentive ADHD but I really don’t know how to help her.

for a bit of background into where her priorities lie, im
severely allergic to cats, luckily only if the hair gets in my eyes but my eyes basically completely close up and I get all wheezy. Well this has always been the case but we had 3 cats growing up. Yup, having cats was more important than my safety. There’s a long list of various things like that that have happened over the years.

Anyway, I’ve come down to stay with her for a week with my 2 kids as she’s always wanting us to come stay (but doesn’t actually want to engage with the kids) but my god, I’m scared for my baby’s health with the crap he’s accessing from the floor (he doesn’t crawl yet but he rolls around all over the place and obv everything goes in his mouth)

what I’m asking is AIBU for being really hurt by mum’s hoarding and filthy house? And if not, what can I do to help her? She’s well aware her house is filthy but she refuses to do anything about it.

YABU: her house is none of your business, leave her to it. Or actually try help her.

YANBU: that’s really out of order to treat you and your children like that.

My mother’s house is a state, doesn’t sound nearly as bad as your mum’s. I still refused to take my kids in until they were about 4 and could be told not to touch things. And even then it would only be to nip in to use the loo or to say goodbye after dropping her back. We stay locally and take her out for the day. A house like that just isn’t a place to visit (it isn’t a place to live, really, but that’s your mum’s choice).

My parents place is like this.
I won’t visit. It’s hard as we are a flight away so they want us to stay, and they even set up a full nursery for Ds. But it was disgusting and I couldn’t let him stay there.

we Last went over for an afternoon only, about a year ago, Ds was 1. I tried to stay in the garden those few hours, but it was still a health hazard tbh and he caught hand foot and mouth from there I’m sure.

Last trip we stay sun next town over, and only met outside on day trips

As someone who also grew up in a hording situation (sounds VERY similar) which has gotten worse in the last few years I'd say limit your visits. Yanbu. I certainly wouldn't take your children there. If she asks why you tell her. You're both adults. If she wants to change but isn't sure how check out hording charities.

Your mother needs help.
You also should consider counselling.
.for now,take your dc out of there.you may well have emotions of rejection but you are a mum now yourself and instead of repeating her mistakes you need to put them first and leave .

so just to answer some questions…

she’s in her 70s, has had mental health issues for many years.

i too have mental health problems and have been seeing a therapist / counsellor for several years already.

some rooms in her house are totally fine (need updating as very dated but are usable) but other rooms are completely unusable (bear in mind it’s a 5 bedroom house so plenty of space to use for one person)

my kids do like her and enjoy seeing her and her cat etc and I always get pressure to come down especially from friends and family friends “let me know when you’re down at your mums and we’ll meet up”

@Hoarding you said in your OP that "I’m scared for my baby’s health with the crap he’s accessing from the floor". That surely trumps any enjoyment or pressure around visiting her, or seeing your friends and family (and it sounds like your baby at least is far too young to care one way or the other)

You can't fix this. She will resist any attempt to do so. Ask any social worker or MH professional who has spent years working with people who hoard how very difficult it is to help them to effect change. No one is saying you should not have contact with her, everyone is saying that needs to be done in a way that is safe for your children.

I can't answer your AIBU because it's more complicated.

Book an AirBNB to stay near her to visit. Don't stay in the house.

It's not unreasonable to find it difficult to cope with, but hoarding is basically a mentl illness. She's not doing it on purpose to spite you.

Boundaries help separate your relationship with her from your feelings about the way she lives.

There was a series on recently where Extreme Cleaners went into houses to clean. They didn't examine the causes of hoarding , it was more a "OMG how can this get into this state?" kind of voyeurism.

But one episode , the owner sat in the lounge , the EC were going through craft items . Everything she said "I need that" and snatched it back.
I recognised this in my Mum, everything I tried to remove she "needed" or "I use that" or "I;m going to sew that"

That was her thing , half sewn, things taken apart and nothing done to it but she "was going to sew it" (she never did)

I need to put my childrens health first but even as a 30-something year old adult I still crave my mums attention/love/affection

You're doing the same thing to your kids that your mother did to you with the cats. Putting them in harm's way because of your own selfish wants. YABU to go and stay there, knowing what it's like, put your kids in that situation and then complain about it.

The lines are often crossed if not always IMO between MH and addiction it is not only a huge problem but it gives the sufferers immense pleasure whether they choose drugs, alcohol, food, hoarding, it's all about filling an internal hole in their soul.

Self satisfaction at a huge cost to others around them.

At 70 I doubt you'll change her though many people find the strength to overcome addiction and avoid triggers for the people they love, equally as many don't find the strength no matter how much they are loved.

No. It gives SOME sufferers "immense pleasure."
Others find themselves without any emotional reaction at all, and or filled with self loathing and disgust as they compulsively fill up the void.

If the condition was nice and neatly predictable that all hoarders are the same and do this, this way, and feel this as a result, we'd be a darn sight closer to finding one size fits all solutions.

You mention having MH problems of your own. If you’re also struggling with hoarding please don’t be ashamed to say so.

It adds to the situation if you feel you’re criticizing your mother for something you’re suffering from too.
I used to think what was happening to me was a punishment for not understanding and recognizing my mother’s suffering and just seeing her as hating motherhood and us, and stayed silent most of my life covering up what I grew up in, what was done to us, and her apparent coldness and lack of compassion.
I accepted it as my responsibility to hide what was happening, my fault when I was taken away, and partly my fault she died as a result. I always saw my addiction to cleanliness and order as just a rebellion against a dirty childhood.
I’ve never dealt with what happened and, in the end, following more sudden deaths and losses, it bubbled up as dysfunctional behaviors of my own. I didn't ask for it.
Only now am I recognizing that shame, is what has kept me firmly where I was.

Your children can enjoy visiting without staying, so I’m wondering if the issue is the expense of staying elsewhere?
Do the family and friends who want to meet 'when you're at mum's' know the conditions of the house?
Does she have visitors there?
Based on the size of the place I’m assuming it’s owned. Are you the only child?

Basically, are you effectively trapped keeping her secret?

If some of the rooms are useable do you think your mother would allow one room to be stripped out painted, and set up so you could visit and have your own catering facilities?

Is the bathroom toilet usable safely? Could it be made to be?

If she’d let you, are there others who would help you?

TBH if she’s in her 70’s and has no motivation for change this is only going to get worse unless there’s a way of putting things in place to keep the situation from further deteriorating.

I have reasonable self-awareness and quite a lot of knowledge, and have successfully helped other hoarders, but a) they have to want to be helped at some level, (even grumpily) and b) it doesn’t then let me fix myself.

I’ve worked on my issues, learnt lots about hoarding and how to change individual relationships with stuff, and would love to receive targeted counseling, CBT etc (am trying to use self-administered CBT) but if you don’t have the money for it, there is little of use out there. (unless you count the occasional insightful MN’er who I'm grateful to) so I can’t see your mum getting anywhere quickly. So you need a plan.

At the heart of that plan needs to be a rule of not allowing your children to be negatively impacted by it all. Protect your children the way no one protected you. It's the one thing you absolutely can do.

I'm on my way out (ironically to clean a hoarded home) but back this afternoon if you're interested in strategies.

No. It gives SOME sufferers "immense pleasure."
The moment of being able to keep or have your fix gives pleasure but very short lived pleasure.
It'san emotional hamsters wheel.
Others find themselves without any emotional reaction at all, and or filled with self loathing and disgust as they compulsively fill up the void.
Yet similarly to other addicts they either feel numb to the situation or their filled with disgust and self loathing.
That's the pattern of mh addiction.

I agree with you. My dad starting hoarding stuff. Nothing with food on but just putting everything in a pile and when he died I sorted it all out. My db is a hoarder too and although he has got rid of some things it's still bad. My mum doesn't really like it and if she had a cleaner they wouldn't be able to get round

I don't think anyone has been successful in "curing" a hoarding addiction. They might clear the place out and put most wanted items in storage etc. but the crap builds back up to fill the empty spaces in nearly every case.

If it were me, I would see the person not the house. They cannot see the mess at all, it's like a total blind spot. So keep your and your children's relationship with your mother but meet up outside of her house, bring her with you to a hotel, Air BnB etc.

I don't envy you, but you must look after your own mental health, and the health and well being of your kids too.

I think a lot of the problem is she’s become paralysed by it. She really enjoys cooking for others, baking stuff, jams, chutneys etc, and loves puzzles in newspapers but this means everything related to those things is hoarded.

and also, yes she does socialise and have people round for dinner etc etc so the bits in which people will be in is tidied and cleaned but everything that had been there just gets moved into another room (and the door shut) and like I said before, certain parts of the house are useable like toilets (theres 5 bathrooms, one of them is unusable due to it becoming a “storage” facility)

for those saying I’m being unreasonable because I’m exposing my children to the dirt and mess, it’s not that simple. I want my children to have a relationship with her and to be fair when we’re on outings away from the house she does actually engage with them. And I just feel sorry for her cos she’s on her own (divorced) so needs help with stuff.

and the qu about siblings, yes I’ve got several siblings, a few older and a few younger (I won’t be specific to avoid being identified)

Hoarding disorder is usually rooted in past trauma.

What was her childhood like?

She needs therapy for that to tackle the problem.

I’m sure this is going to out me for anyone that knows me but basically childhood wise she was sent to full time boarding school at the age of 8 and from then onwards only saw her parents twice a year

Christ, go home man. You can't subject your kids to that.

for those saying I’m being unreasonable because I’m exposing my children to the dirt and mess, it’s not that simple. I want my children to have a relationship with her and to be fair when we’re on outings away from the house she does actually engage with them.

Yes, it is that simple. You are putting your wants and you misplaced guilt above the safety of your own children. You are being woefully negligent.

There isn't much you can do aside from talking to her, encourage her to engage with mental health services. You could hire a cleaner to come in once a week and not touch the storage rooms. So for example she just cleans the living room, kitchen and bathrooms. However your mum might not agree. I would refuse to take my kids there.

Her house is unsafe for your dc. I can’t imagine why you would take them there. Don”t you think it’s too risky?

This is really insightful & excellent advice OP

She's in her 70's,mentally ill and alone in a 5 bed house.I'd consider selling the house and having her move into a residential home.

I did an afternoons work at one yesterday;it was lovely,it's wasn't a nursing home but one where the residents had a largish room with a sitting area and their own bathroom,there was communal dining room and TV lounge and a resident's kitchen for tea making/baking but the meals were provided by the main kitchen,there was a daily housekeeping team who also did the laundry and staff to monitor and help the residents.She'd be better off in a place like this,she wouldn't be able to hoard and it'd be clean.

OP, I'm honestly not having a pop at you, but your OP described really insanitary conditions and your concerns for your baby's health. It doesn't matter that some rooms in this (large) house are OKish, if that is the case, it's a safety issue. I honestly feel for you but backtracking to yourself won't help.

As for her dinner guests, Lord help them.