Mark Feehily wants surrogacy to be cheaper and accessible for everyone

[Wouldloveanother]

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11141771/Westlifes-Mark-Feehily-discusses-privileged-expensive-surrogacy-journey-welcome-daughter.html

Why are men so entitled?

You are so wrong here. Adopted children do have biological parents and we tell them about them all the time - because it’s part of their identity and affects every moment of their lives - sometimes we even have relationships (through letterbox or direct contact) with the biological parents because we understand the loss created to all when a child is taken into care, taken from their biological parent. Being adopted is a major factor in my kids lives, as is their biological parents. To say what you did shows a deep misunderstanding.

There's an excellent book on attachment and adoption of babies called Primal Wound. I read it in the context of an adopted sibling. To an outsider it's been an extremely successful adoption but reading the book highlighted so many behaviour issues and patterns that I recognised. And this was a baby adopted at 6 weeks.
I also wonder what happened to all those babies at the start of the war in Ukraine? Did they make it to their intended parents?

I wonder if it’s deliberate or if it’s just because of ivf but I see your point how if someone is paying then 2 for 1 may be an attractive scenario

I think @goldsparklyChocolate has a point but no one wants to justify their belief in abortion for some reason

@goldsparklyChocolate yes they can suffer that loss.as an adoptive mum I bought a book about it called the primal wound. I found it too hard to read. My dd is adored by 2 parents it makes me so sad to think she, on a primal level, has always had a hole where her birth mother should be

but no one wants to justify their belief in abortion for some reason

I have. A thousand times. On threads ABOUT ABORTION. This thread is about surrogacy.

We can tell you weren't talking, or indeed thinking about, the newborn baby.

That's the whole problem.

How is IVF even remotely the same as surrogacy? How ridiculous

I’m sure she knows how loved she is and that you would fix it for her if you could. Her life must be immeasurably better with a lovely mum like you. 💐

Maybe have a read, and learn why people don't like it

I don't know where on surrogacy I stand. I don't want it to be used to exploit vulnerable, desperate women. But, assuming a woman is choosing to do it freely. her baby is unwanted by her. If she wanted to be a mother she would get pregnant some other way. So the baby is being removed from a mother who doesn't want them. Many feminists assert a woman should be able to abort a baby up to full term, for any reason at all, including because she does not want it. This is because a woman can choose what to do with her body and her needs come before the foetus. So, one could argue that a woman should have the choice to carry a foetus then sell it because her need of money or the altruistic reward for her comes before the foetus.

I think you have to go further than that: no-one gets paid at all, not the surrogate, not the agent that arranges it, not the lawyers, not the solicitors. Everyone does it for it free - that is altruism.

Unfortunately allowing any surrogacy normalises the principle that it is ok to give a baby away and ok to use a woman to grow a baby for you. Neither of these things is ok.

But it brings into question the level of awareness and consciousness and capability to have emotions and feelings such as a sense of loss as a newborn intertwined with womens rights and bodily autonomy so I think it’s not a subject a million miles away

But, assuming a woman is choosing to do it freely. her baby is unwanted by her. If she wanted to be a mother she would get pregnant some other way. So the baby is being removed from a mother who doesn't want them.

You’re confusing surrogacy with adoption.

Surrogacy is the commissioning of a baby to be removed from its mother - it is purposefully conceived for this reason.

Not an accidental pregnancy which the mum can’t bring herself to terminate, so it’s better to be born and adopted.

Thank heavens it does cost a small fortune, I think the cost should be multiplied by 10 which would stop a lot of idiots , naming no names, thinking that buying a baby was on the same level of decision making as buying a car or a house. Read the article, the baby’s mother isn’t mentioned once, unless she comes under “research”.

Can a penis bearer ever really understand this issue. I don't think so, and they should have no say in it for that reason. Their wants are utterly subservient to the needs of the mothers and babies involved.

The simple difference is the intention.

if the mother intends to have a termination, the baby won’t ‘live’ a life. Therefore its needs as a baby, child and then adult don’t factor.

if the mother intends to continue with the pregnancy then there is a duty of care to the baby to ensure it is brought into the world in the best circumstances for it not to suffer.

I have absolutely no issue with gay couples raising a child. I do have an issue with surrogacy to create that child. I know some may say my stance is homophobic, it's not - I have the same issue with heterosexual couples. The only surrogacy that I am on the fence about is true altruistic surrogacy by a family member/close family - still have reservations but not as far as banning

When you deliver a baby and put it into its mothers arms you understand how important that moment, that flood of hormones, that bonding is, for mother and child.
To deprive the baby , (and its mother) of that physical and emotional experience is just wrong.
I think we are going to see all sorts of problems in later life.
Elaine Miller talks very knowledgably about this.
That is completely aside from all the risks of pregnancy and birth and the exploitation of disadvantaged women.

For PPs who are still wondering why so many women are opposed to commercial surrogracy, for me and many others it's not homophobia, it's that buying a baby is morally offensive, whether it's by an infertile woman, a gay male couple or a Kardashian.

So a baby can be born and for example of separated from its mother immediately can then feel loss ? Even if it's held and cuddled and fed

I was taken at birth and put straight into foster care. I can't say I've ever felt a loss over it

But you don't agree to become a surrogate because you want to keep the baby and raise it yourself? I am talking about surrogacy freely entered into, without exploitation. If you agree to be a surrogate you don't want to keep the baby. If you want to keep the baby you get pregnant in some other way?

what about the baby’s rights? You haven’t mentioned them.

So, one could argue that a woman should have the choice to carry a foetus then sell it because her need of money or the altruistic reward for her comes before the foetus
Jesus fucking Christ. A newborn baby is not a foetus. And a new born baby has rights. And they should have the right to not be sold.

In relation to the homophobia issue- there is a very good gay adoptee Tiktoker who talks about this. His argument is that aiming for the traditional 2:4 nuclear family is the issue and that’s built around those in Herero relationships. He points to gay people who have linked with others to have children themselves (eg co-parenting with a single woman who wants a child etc) as a better option than surrogacy as children remain with their birth parents and there is no separation issue.