To ask for the tangible benefits to you from Brexit, whichever way you voted

[Bunnyfuller]

I genuinely want to know, what’s improved? Specific to you/your family?

is Brexit as it is what you thought it would be, or if you voted Remain, has it been more positive than you expected?

anyone calling it ‘goady thread’ is possibly saying Brexit isn’t going that well?

Freedom of movement devastated the building trade which was a traditionally ok paying job.

What a load of bollocks.
You struggle to get a trades person to even look at a job round here for well over a decade, and they all charged a fortune. There was and still is a massive shortage of tradespeople and that shortage has held up house building and infrastructure projects like crossrail.

Whether it is a benefit depends on where you sit on these topics:

1. Brexit and the handling of it by the Tory Government particularly under Boris has ironically done more for the cause of a United Ireland than 40 years of the Troubles ever did.

2. Scottish Independence - which was a dead issue after the results of the referendum. However post Brexit it had come back to life.

3. vacations in the UK has risen (and so have the prices) as it becomes a lot more hassle to travel abroad

4. in part inflation has risen due to less flexibility in the labour market. Great if you are a builder but not great if you are paying for a builder.

I suppose Brexit was a massive win for Putin so at least it made someone happy.

How fortunate. Because it hasn't caused you any personal hardship, you get to sit on the fence through the defining debate in our country's modern history. And complain that everybody who 'got involved', regardless of their position, was simply engaging in tribalism at great inconvenience to you. Didn't stop you picking a 'tribe' and exercising your right to vote though, did it? 🙄

Yet immigration into UK has increased since the Brexit referendum.

‘The UK is now seeing immigration from “poorer” countries rather than Europe, US, Canada etc.’ - Neil O’Brien Tory MP

Freedom of movement devastated the building trade which was a traditionally ok paying job

That's certainly what Jeremy Corbyn claimed in 2017;

What there wouldn’t be is the wholesale importation of underpaid workers from central Europe in order to destroy conditions, particularly in the construction industry.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-grilled-over-brexit-10855886

End of freedom of movement. I can't afford to travel abroad so anything that inconveniences the travel of others is a good thing. People need to travel less.

Aside of the fact that FoM does not only refer to holidays, where are people going now? People who can afford to travel will continue to do so. People who stay in the UK are ensuring that the price of a UK holiday will go up. Now instead of not being able to afford foreign travel, you may not be able to afford travel in side the UK. That's your problem, i feel.

The problem of many EU migrants living in HMOs and driving down the wages of already poorly paid jobs was an issue even without making it a topic for Brexit. But someone needs to do those jobs. If students (or other groups of workers) no longer do them, as they did in the past - the vacancies are still there. So who will do those jobs? The whole point of trying to push the majority of school-leavers to uni was to make UK a high-skills economy. Closure of heavy, and not so heavy, industry (what do you produce in the UK now?) and focussing on making it a service economy didn't do anyone any favours. Well paid so-called blue-collar jobs were good jobs to have, but now they have gone too. All the people who would have gone into those jobs are now in service industries. A lot of them on low pay.

I wouldn't have voted for Brexit had i been allowed - but i absolutely understand why the working class thought, hoped, believed that it would push up their wages. I know a few industries have benefitted (building, forestry i think too, etc) but where they haven't - why is that? How do you get the fruit picked, etc, if you don't have cheap workers either from inside or outside the country or EU?

Our country is no longer a free for all for any poverty stricken eastern european who wants a "better life" at our expense.

Eastern Europeans I know personally who have left due to Brexit include

A Child Psychologist who worked for the NHS
2 Teaching Assistants
2 school cleaners and a caretaker
A solicitor
A pharmacist
A qualified social worker working in Child Protection.

None of these people were living at your expense and I'd be interested to know what you contribute to society that makes you superior to them.

The NHS is really struggling to recruit staff at the moment, particularly within Mental Health services and people will suffer as a result. Friends who are working in the NHS tell me staff are exhausted and feel unsafe on the wards and they are adamant this is not because of covid, but politicians will certainly use it as an excuse.

Kids I work with are reliant on short-term agency social workers who don't give a shit because they know they're going to disappear after a few weeks and I know some very vulnerable families who have been waiting weeks to be allocated a social worker at all. In our area unqualified Support Workers are being expected to take on more and more responsibility to make up the short fall.

At the school where I work we are desperate for cleaners, caretakers and TA's and have been advertising for these posts constantly but people are just not applying.

Brexit has already been disastrous for our public services which were already facing a skills shortage and I dread to think what the situation is like in care homes. But none of this will change your bigoted view of Eastern Europeans.

Great post neverbeenskiing I'll add 2 molecular scientists, two microbiologists and two more excellent teachers.

We get to see Remoaners frothing at the mouth. That's always amusing

This kind of reductive, moronic response is why Brexit keeps on pitting the country against itself.

People have seen beloved friends and family members leave the country. But that amuses you. Pitiful.

To be fair, on FoM, I've just employed a European in the U.K., no issues, and my niece has taken a job in Brussels so I've yet to see a problem with FoM.

Increased paperwork seems to be the biggest issue.

I'd argue about the vacations in the UK as it's become more difficult to travel abroad, it really isn't more difficult, hardly anything has changed, however it's harder to move abroad.
The reason people are staying in the UK is more to do with covid restrictions, or fear of them coming back in.
That or the fear of flights being caused by staff shortages.

I think for many people who votes remain they refuse to believe that freedom of movement did have a negative impacts in some areas

so often (more so the left) dismissed these concerns and of course people get angry when then are once again dismissed which working class communities so often are other speak for them

I’ve heard many claim the FOM was to improve all our lives, it’s not so we can pop off and live in Spain if we choose it’s based on providing business what they need sadly we do not have strong unions so cheap labour force is easy for businesses to take advantage of

I voted remain but there were problems with being in the EU (if I voiced this in person or online I was called a leaver how has political debate and discussion become so black and white it’s ridiculous)
that were difficult to address we already had a divided society MP’s choose to ignore this (why? They have never had to answer
to this I hope on time they are made to) and push ahead with a referendum which was absolute madness

this has been addressed by Michael Barnier that divisions in the UK were being ignored and what a mistake that was as they are being in France and Germany it’s dangerous too do we never learn from history

Excellent post @neverbeenskiing . It's a national as well as a personal tragedy, but some people will never surrender their right to be 'right', despite the heartbreaking evidence.

But in a situation where there are 2 candidates who are equally as good I imagine most employers would go for the one who involved the least paperwork etc.

Increased paperwork seems to be the biggest issue.

that is exactly the point. Previously? zero paperwork. It all adds to costs.

so often (more so the left) dismissed these concerns and of course people get angry when then are once again dismissed which working class communities so often are other speak for them

but i think you will find that is the centrists - the hard left ("hard") like Benn, Corbyn and most unions were all for Brexit for EXACTLY that reason. So any leavers should totally be backing the strikes. Are they? because the strikes are now the tool for these workers to obtain the increased wages that Brexit was supposed to get for them. But didn't because as it turns out the UK is governed and run for corporations whose only obligation is to their shareholders.

I'd be interested if there are statistics on who are supporting the strikes and how they voted in the referendum.

By left I meant Labour

centrist Labour which held power for much of the time (which I tend to be but not stuck there, the refusal to acknowledge issues has been a huge mistake for Labour)

I was answering the question in the OP.

Yes I voted in line with my ideology. I don't think you know what tribal means.

It's not the defining debate of anything. It's the most persistent debate but the debate itself is shallow as fuck.

Honestly, if there were benefits, for me or for other ordinary people, I would move on.
Also, it's an anonymous forum, you could just name change and post some of your benefits. If the benefits were far reaching and actually good for the country, they should not be so easy to tear apart by remainers.
Some have mentioned getting spaces in schools due to Europeans leaving. I don't love this, but it's a benefit for them and I respect that.
What are the others?

And why should remainers not still be concerned about their freedoms being taken away? Do you think because it happened a few years ago that people should stop fighting for this?

@calmlakes where did you go?

As for backing strikes I think at the moment people are very weary Covid has had a huge impact on how many people feel they just want things to be normal again with the concerns about price rises plus the desire to keep to normality I think many will have little tolerance for strikes for too long

if we hadn’t of had Covid things may have been different (and the government wouldn’t be more answerable but we can’t deny the impact of Covid)

The vote was a long time ago, Brexit is in the history books at this point

See this is the problem it’s not in terms of the impact but also the process. There is so much that is still being done to make things actually work again (or as near as can be got) that it’s still being done. It was sold as a one shot thing, but it’s a process. A painful, expensive process to (in the very best case) get us to a slightly worse net position that we were in.

Although there will be some people that benefit from increased wages, I think ultimately we’re going to see many businesses failing over the next few years, rising costs will mean lots of businesses going under.

Fruit and other forms of farming won’t be able to make any profit at all, and farms will become wasteland, derelict. Ditto pubs, coffee shops and restaurants, more boarded up properties with no jobs for anyone, no taxes going to the government. A common story I’ve heard from many doing a U.K. holiday is seeing many places unable to serve food as the staff aren’t available.

Looking at hgv drivers, sure, big pay increases, but that has a knock on effect; now the bin lorry driver wants that too, and the local bus driver, and for them to get paid more it’s either your council tax going up, or the fares.

There is a thread just started about how you find a builder. I myself have employed builders in the past to improve the places I was living in. No way that’s possible now, so people will just make do with not doing the work. Again, stagnation, and less tax take, things not getting done. Rich people, or those with connections will be ok, your average person trying to get something done, less so.

So I think there’s going to be an awful lot of stagnation and things going backwards, or out of business completely. All the data about the economy seems to me to confirm this. It will be a disaster capitalist wet dream as they’ll be able to pick over the carcasses of businesses at bargain basement prices. No wonder Rees mogg and co are so in favour- they’re going to make a killing over the coming years. So although on the surface of things, people might say “I’m doing alright out of it”, on balance I think far more harm will be done overall to the country.

Trades people can pick and choose jobs now , they are also going to pick the best jobs that profit them the most. Most poor people can't afford to get work done. I think middle class people feeling put out because they can't afford cheap labour for their extension, is a bit crass. I guess they will have to save more. I have a cleaner and I've had to raise wages or they will go elsewhere, the choice is I pay or I clean my own house.

I guess we will have to get used to not relying on cheap labour for everything and wage inflation.

As a non-EU immigrant with residence in the UK, I now can join UK queue at airports instead of having to wait for hours with tourists from non-EU countries whilst EU tourists breeze through. Also, don't need DH or DD to be with me to do this. As someone who travels a lot for work - I do find this beneficial. But that's about it, and it shouldn't have required Brexit to be sorted.

Covid has had a huge impact on how many people feel they just want things to be normal again with the concerns about price rises plus the desire to keep to normality I think many will have little tolerance for strikes for too long

Batshit take. The point is "concerns about price rises" are also affecting people who strike. "little tolerance"? how much tolerance do they have for the upper management of utilities companies raking in the cash?

The infighting among the have-nots and the soon-to-be-have-nots and the have-very-little is one of the major problems the UK is facing (not all down to Brexit for sure, but it is excacerbated by it) is down to the haves laughing all the way to the (offshore) bank while everyone else fights among themselves.

Am very happy that drivers, builders and so on are seeing their wages go up. Perhaps people will start to appreciate their work.