Re children in restaurant

[Arbesque]

Four of us booked a table in an expensive restaurant last night for 7.30.
About 10 minutes after we'd sat down a couple came in pushing a buggy and with 2 other children in tow. They were seated at the table beside us.
One child kept bashing his spoon off the table, another kept crawling along the wide windowsill so that he was right behind my head, and the baby was kept amused by the father playing peek a boo while she screamed excitedly. This went on and on.

We asked to be moved to another table. There were none available.Then the baby started crying loudly and the toddler got tired and cranky and joined the wailing.

We left without dessert and complained on the way out. They knocked the price of a bottle of wine off our bill.

AIBU to think expensive restaurants, charging a fortune, should have a policy for dealing with situations like this?

We paid a lot of money for a meal we couldn't enjoy.

YANBU OP .However a lovely meal was punctuated recently by a woman late 20s? Getting louder and louder and literally screaming with laughter, to the point none of us could hear over her! Pointless to complain for us .At least you got a free bottle of wine!

YANBU OP.

We once made the mistake, when DD was very little, of taking her to an expensive restaurant for lunch. Totally out of character (possibly teeth related) she spent the duration grizzling and crying. We therefore spent the majority of it taking it in turns to go outside with her, whilst the other one wolfed down whatever course we were having.

Never again.

We take our children out for meals, but they are under strict instruction to behave. We certainly wouldn't take them to a fine dining restaurant. And we tend to eat earlier in the evening when there are often more families, and the atmosphere is more relaxed. If we are going somewhere later in the evening, or somewhere high end, we get a sitter. When the children were smaller, we went to those sorts of places far less frequently.

There is clearly a middle ground between children being allowed everywhere and them being seen and not heard. And part of that middle ground should be focussed on behaviour and social skills, and as many have said, that's not just something that applies to children!

Glad the "shooting the baby" was cleared up lest the people who think children should behave (note: not be absolutely silent and statue-like) get accused of wanting to set up galleries complete with an AK47

You’re so rude it’s quite sad. You also appear to not understand sarcasm which is unfortunate.

No I'm not rude. You seemed in blithe ignorance of the difference between a family wedding and an expensive/fine dining establishment.

PP mentioned a woman getting increasingly loud and lamenting the fact she couldn't complain about that. Why ever not? I don't accept that people who are disturbing an entire restaurant with their behaviour (noise, lurching around, climbing behind diners) should not be challenged. The easiest thing to do is to ask the waiting staff to have a word, then the manager/owner. And failing that - as you pack up to leave to say to her as you pass "pipe down there, lady, not everyone has earplugs with them" or something

I am beginning to see the connection, however, between the way adults behave in the UK with the non-existent parenting that seems to go on in lots of homes.

It does really sound annoying but I agree with the last two points. To add to them:

1. My toddler son is normally well behaved at restaurants but one time he wasn’t. He’s always changing and surprising us. They might have thought it’d be fine.

2. What is an expensive meal is subjective.

TBH, I also think you’re being sort of unreasonable to complain to the restaurant when it’s not the restaurant’s fault that you had loud customers next to you.

Some people who don’t often go to nice restaurants seem to confuse them with a church, or a library, and expect to sit in near-silence.

Absolutely nobody on this thread is demanding a near silence 'church' or 'library' experience when at a high end restaurant so I am not sure where you are inferring that from. However there is a world of difference between the general non-intrusive background chit-chat murmur of a busy restaurant that you naturally just filter out and the high pitch excited screaming, table banging or crying that kids are capable of and I suspect you are very aware of this so not sure why you are being deliberately obtuse.

It’s an unreasonable expectation; there’s no reason to think that a meal in the Fat Duck should be any quieter than one in Zizzi.

Seriously. The Fat Duck is 3 star Michelin restaurant and Zizzi is a nationwide chain that specializes in family meals and has kids menus. The former are currently asking between £275-350 per person for their set menus. You will probably need to add another £60 minimum for a bottle of wine, so potentially a final bill of £760. Zizzi charge about £14 for a pizza and a fiver for a starter.

I would not be demanding a 'church' like atmosphere at the Fat Duck, however I would be immensely pissed off if I was going to drop nearly a grand on a probably one off, gastronomic experience in a world class restaurant where you get to witness amazing highly trained chefs and waiters at work and that was in part spoiled by the Pounshop Glen Miller Toddler tribute act on the table next-door.

I'm with the OP. I get sick of having other people's badly behaved children foisted on me. It's so infuriating when the parents don't even try to get their children to behave.

The were in an expensive restaurant in the evening, you shouldn’t have to sit and listen to screaming babies, same as those who think it’s ok to take babies to the cinema and ruin the enjoyment of everyone else. Typical of self entitled I can do as I want attitude.

YANBU!

7.30pm is far too late for a toddler in a formal restaurant. Parents should either show children how to behave appropriately and insist they do, book dinner earlier, or take them somewhere less formal.

Those idiots asking why parent shouldn't enjoy an expensive meal? Well of course they can if they get a babysitter!

I agree with you OP. I would not take DS to a nice restaurant at that time of day (any time of day tbh). We took him to a family friendly pub for Sunday lunch yesterday (kids menu etc), he wouldn't sit and eat his food, wanted to run around. So we said if you can't behave we will leave, and we ended up leaving. I don't think it's ok for kids to disrupt other diners when you're out for a meal.

Adults screaming with laughter annoys me too. It’s so unnecessary. Nothing is THAT funny.

Maybe you should have checked the policy before you booked. It's my birthday in a couple of weeks time and I wanted to go to my favourite restaurant with my family and my kids. I did call up to ask whether they allowed children in there after a certain time, and they said children are very welcomed and the more the merrier. They have a children's menu as well.
That being said, I wouldn't be happy with the kids being badly behaved, but that applies to all restaurants, at all times.

Some people who don’t often go to nice restaurants seem to confuse them with a church, or a library, and expect to sit in near-silence.

Do you only have two modes of communication? Near silence or screeching? Because, unless you are in fact a coyote, there’s normally a big old middle ground available.

@Arbesque if you feel it warrants if you can always leave a Tripadvisor or google review. As a general rule restaurants do take them quite seriously, and for some a bad review can mean the difference between the manager getting a bonus, and not. So it is something they keep a close eye on, and care about.

A Michelin starred or high end restaurant in either Italy or Spain WOULD NOT WELCOME CHILDREN LIKE THIS. A babysitter would be booked and dressing up and wine would happen.

On holiday, at the seaside in a family friendly out door bar/taverna/retaurant yes.
It is 40 degrees in August, people are asleep all afternoon FGS, everything is shut. It is different to the UK. In July/August.

So sick of hearing Spain would accept this. Bullshit. Or Italy, or France and I have or do live(d) and have or have helped raise children in all three. My DD is Spanish.

Will you please stop making stuff up about my posting history. It's as weird as it is annoying.

Very well said.

Part of the problem is lack of enforcement of proper table manners in the home. If kids were trained to be calm and quiet, they'd know how to behave in public.

Parents can't expect restaurants to be an extension of their own kitchen. Different rules apply.

You definitely wouldn’t like us as a family then! We take our son to comedy gigs, restaurants and the theatre. The last time we went to the theatre the performers actually came over to thank us for introducing our son the the arts from a young age. If the parents were letting the baby scream without making an effort to placate them or the toddler was running around under other people’s tables then I would agree it wasn’t appropriate, but just making a bit of noise? Maybe if kids weren’t so hemmed in these days because of people’s attitudes, more kids would know how to behave in these environments.

just trying to imagine someone taking Arlo and a screeching spoon-bashing baby to El Buli (is it still there). Feran Adria (sp?) would be after them with a meat cleaver.

No I'm not rude. You seemed in blithe ignorance of the difference between a family wedding and an expensive/fine dining establishment.

actually yes you are. I’m well aware of the difference. My point was merely that the UK and other cultures have different attitudes towards acceptable child behaviour. I was merely drawing a parallel between traditional English weddings which definitely aren’t particularly child friendly to Asian weddings which most certainly are to highlight the cultural differences in how children are expected to behave.

like I said now at least 3 times, expensive is a relative term, fine dining however, i wouldn’t take small children too as it’s hardly age appropriate

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Peoples attitudes are informed by the behaviour children who haven’t been taught how to behave in public. If kids, outside of a playground, run around screaming and climbing all over the place whilst the parents smile indulgently and/or ignore it, then they will be met with hostility. Unsurprisingly. The more common it is, the more negative attitudes will become entrenched. If you want children to be welcomed then there should be a willingness to actually teach them how to behave in relation to their environment.

i cant image a comedy show being appropirate for a child @Happyorchidlady - do you cover their ears, or ignore any bad language?

again, I'm not rude and this disingenuous rubbish is why you are the rude one

actually yes you are. I’m well aware of the difference

So whatever. I literally don't care what you think but don't be whiny when people call your bullshit.

I agree with this. If people are constantly having to put up with kids making a racket in restaurants, libraries, during church ceremonies etc while parents ignore them, it creates an intolerant attitude towards kids being in those places. Which is unfair on the many, many parents who do their best not to allow their children to take over in public shared spaces.

Really? Are there any in London that you could name? Though I guess they will be out of my price range?

Chez Bruce in Wandsworth used not to allow children. You're probably looking at close to £100 pp now, plus wine.

Lovely food though.