Re children in restaurant

[Arbesque]

Four of us booked a table in an expensive restaurant last night for 7.30.
About 10 minutes after we'd sat down a couple came in pushing a buggy and with 2 other children in tow. They were seated at the table beside us.
One child kept bashing his spoon off the table, another kept crawling along the wide windowsill so that he was right behind my head, and the baby was kept amused by the father playing peek a boo while she screamed excitedly. This went on and on.

We asked to be moved to another table. There were none available.Then the baby started crying loudly and the toddler got tired and cranky and joined the wailing.

We left without dessert and complained on the way out. They knocked the price of a bottle of wine off our bill.

AIBU to think expensive restaurants, charging a fortune, should have a policy for dealing with situations like this?

We paid a lot of money for a meal we couldn't enjoy.

Don't want to be around children then either book a restaurant that doesn't allow kids after a certain time or perhaps even better stay home. So many people in this country have this stupid attitudes towards children.

They’re all of a piece, though, aren’t they? I don’t like selfish neighbours in the same way I don’t like selfish fellow diners or drivers or whatever. Being annoyed by these things is consistent and doesn’t undermine the complaint.

I notice a lot of familiar arguments from neighbour threads being rolled out here. If you don’t like it, you’re boring. If you don’t like it, you’re selfish. If you don’t like it, move to the back of beyond / eat in a childfree restaurant. If you don’t like it, it’s your problem. I paid for my garden / meal, so I’ll do whatever the hell I want. Same resistance to taking any responsibility and the same pigheaded insistence that there is no middle ground or compromise between absolute silence and anything goes.

The thing that comes out of all these threads is that there are people who consider others, accepting this means they won’t get what they want all the time, and expect the same courtesy in return. And then there are those who think any notion that they might put themselves out to make life a bit more pleasant for people around them is an unacceptable imposition.

But what about the crying, wailing, peek a boo - what should the restaurant have said about that??

The crying - after a certain amount of time (based on my experience of good restaurants, and common sense) would be to approach them and mention they might be more comfortable walking the baby up and down in the lobby and would they like a drink while they're doing it?
Peek-a-bo in itself isn't the problem. Playing that leads the child to shriek? see above.

It really isn't rocket salad.

I often wonder if some parents are desperately hoping that Arlo and co. will be entertained by other diners, so that they can eat in peace lol!

And so many parents think their offspring can't do any wrong and, even worse, encourage bad behaviour. They need to realise they might find their little darlings endearing, but other people aren't interested in them.

Do you really think it's acceptable to allow your kid to crawl around near someone's head, bothering other people.

😭😭

I've not read all the comments but I've seen a few really bashing you OP. I completely agree with you. It is bloody annoying. I moved tables a couple of weeks ago in an ice cream parlour as a dad and 2 kids were in the booth behind us. I'd say the youngest was maybe 6 or 7 but she was incapable of speaking at a normal volume. Just shrieking and shouting constantly. To top it off the dad was drumming on the table. And that was just an ice cream. I'd be well hacked off of it was a full meal.

Well my husband is Asian and I’ve lived on the continent as well as the ME and there is an understanding that children are children and make noise, talk, play hide and seek, babies cry on occasion.

weddings in my husbands family for instance, children run around and play games without being scolded or disappointed and angry looks from other guests, it’s normal. I cannot say the same for the UK and white British culture it’s very much children should be seen and not heard which is why so many get in a tizz, specifically the older generation about visible breastfeeding

So many people in this country have this stupid attitudes towards children.

Yes, and it is that they should be allowed to run around and be as noisy as they like wherever they are and fuck anyone who just wants to eat their meal without Arlo crawling around behind their heads.

weddings in my husbands family for instance, children run around and play games without being scolded or disappointed and angry looks from other guests

You do understand the difference between going to an upmarket restaurant and a family weddinng? I was at one once, which was really relaxed in terms of kids running around and it was all fine and dandy until about 3 of them crashed into the table with the cake on. Quick reactions on the part of the (non-parent) people on the tables near it (placed their so the danger of kids bumping into it was reduced) stoped it hitting the floor, but they couldn't build the tiers up again for the cutting the cake photo (incidentally, groom's brother married 2 years later - no children allowed as a result of this)

What is missing, i think, in a lot of this "parenting" is teaching children about a sense of occasion. Do they shriek in libraries? in the quiet carriage of a train? (sadly, the answer is probably "yes")

We never went to restaurants when ours were baby and toddler age. Noise and messing about definitely ruins the enjoyment of eating out for others.

I wouldn't inflict my dc on diners at a fancy restaurant past 7pm. Nor would I appreciate having a rare child-free night and ending up with what you've described either OP.

Yanbu to resent it, but I wouldn't have expected the restaurant to compensate me for the situation.

This nails it. Our individualistic society is exactly why we can't have a lovely all generational mix. Because every parent insisting that they want to be in a society which engages with and enjoys their children in restaurants etc is also a parent who would scream bloody murder if one of that society remonstrated with their child for poor behaviour. You can't have it both ways.

I wouldn’t expect to see toddlers and babies in a restaurant at 7.30pm? Lunch or early dinner then absolutely but my DD would have a meltdown at being up that late (she goes down at 7.) I know some people have super flexible babies who can just snooze in the pram but I wouldn’t attempt to take her to a fancy restaurant.

i totally get your frustration, it’s so difficult to keep babies and children quiet during mealtimes out but other people shouldn’t be disturbed. If DH and I had a nice meal planned which was spoiled then I’d be annoyed too!

There’s a restaurant near here that doesn’t allow in kids under 12.

No one is saying the family in the OP don’t deserve to go out but some restaurants don’t cater well for families, there are plenty of places that do.

You do understand the difference between going to an upmarket restaurant and a family weddinng?

No @Brefugee please explain it to me? I’m that stupid. Ffs. My point was that weddings for the most part are extremely formal affairs where children if permitted are kept on a tight leash. I was responding if it was a question of better behaved kids or different attitudes towards children. And it’s the latter.

you can explain to a toddler this is a quiet space and to use quiet voices but ultimately they are a toddler and have no impulse control so they very well might shriek. Now would I buy a seat in a quiet area because of this with young children? No I wouldn’t, nor would I go to a ‘very expensive’ restaurant or some place that isn’t child friendly. But my overarching point is the uk has a very ‘seen (sometimes unless it’s breastfeeding) and not heard’ attitude towards children

Spot on.

So, not shrieking, climbing round other customers of playing drums at the table.

Words of one syllable? Child not run where hot food.
Child not bug non-parents (can't do that in one syllable words, so sue me)

The difference between a family wedding where people are more likely (but not entirely 100% likely) to look fondly on as children run around annoying everyone and making a noise during the speeches, and a formal restaurant where they have no such obligation to indulge such behaviour is alien to you?

I have not once said anything about children being seen and not heard (although in a very expensive upmarket place my preference is for zero children) - i have consistently, and clearly, requested that parents actually parent their children and save me the bother of having to do it for them. On account of i have already brought up my DCs successfully. And yes, we did go to michelin starred restaurants with a bf baby and a toddler (friends of ours) and most people never noticed the baby and the toddler ate some food then slept on a bench. We have taken them to sevaral high end places. Only once did we have to leave because one or other of them wouldn't behave, and we have never had to stop them bugging people by climbing round the backs of their seats.

You do you. But if I'm in a restaurant and your child is climbing on a windowsill behind me or shrieking? yes i will a) judge you and b) ask you to make it stop

They are. We've seen this so often at pubs, cafes and other venues like NT estates. Parents just sit there while others look out for the children.

@DillonPanthersTexas

From their website:

Are children allowed in the restaurant?
We do welcome children at Le Gavroche; however we do not provide high chairs or have any baby changing facilities for very small children. We do not have a specific children’s menu, but if you let us know in advance the chef will be able to prepare something appropriate.

You’re so rude it’s quite sad. You also appear to not understand sarcasm which is unfortunate.

my point wasn’t you personally but more of Brits as a whole v other cultures not that it’s perfectly acceptable for children to run wild everywhere and anywhere.

for that exact reason I take my children to age appropriate venues and on the whole my toddler is fairly well behaved but still is a toddler and gets disparaging looks in the cafe at asda for chattering away.

I’ve never been out to dinner with them in truth but yes to all of the above at a wedding

Of course YANBU @Arbesque. Those posters saying that you are dull/boring/joyless/hate children/are being unreasonable clearly haven't got past the small children stage and are immune to how annoying they can be.

I am well past that stage, and when I go out for a meal I don't want children crawling past me or running around. I don't hate children and appreciate normal children noises, but I really cannot bear screeching.

Yes, children need to learn how to behave, but not at the expense of pissing off all the other diners. We used to take DD out (before screens were so popular) and took colouring books to keep her occupied so that she wouldn't annoy the other diners. We also went to places where we didn't have to wait ages for our food.

Very few restaurants have an explicit child exclusion policy. However, MANY restaurants have a very obvious grown-up atmosphere and the expectation that grown adults know how to conduct themselves and make decisions.

I have no children and very rarely find reason to scream in a restaurant. Why should it fall to me to "just stay home then" rather than to the people who more often cause noise, risk and mess?

You chose to bring a screaming, unpredictable little human into existence. YOU make the sacrifice in this case, not me.

I think it would be helpful for restaurants to be clear about whether they are family friendly, and if that is all the time, or early evening only, so that customers can make an informed choice. This is the feedback I'd be giving to the resturant, as this is where they failed. Once the family was in and paying customers, I'm not sure what they could have done differently.
The experience of eating out in a child free environment is very different from being surrounded by young children, and it's perfectly reasonable to want one experience and not the other, so YANBU to be frustrated by this.