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To think size 18 is plus size and not 'hardly plus size'

1000 replies

sanddownthatwall · 22/08/2022 00:09

The poster, with a very large following, is saying a size 18 isn't really plus size by much, and that 'most people (in the UK), are above a Size 16?

Really? I don't know that many people above a size 16. I really don't. I know lots and lots of size 12/14 and thought that was about average? It's usually the first sizes to sell out

www.instagram.com/p/ChiDp-1Mos3/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

OP posts:
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17
DillDanding · 22/08/2022 09:10

Of course size 18 is plus size. So is a 16.

MrMrsJones · 22/08/2022 09:11

I would say anything over a size 16 is plus size, however...men don't have plus size, just sizes, so why can women?

And the whole idea of 10, 12, 14, etc needs a complete overhall and standardisation

HundredMilesAnHour · 22/08/2022 09:11

Marvellousmadness · 22/08/2022 02:41

Healthy should be size 10.

Size 14/16 might be the AVARAGE size now
. But it doesnt mean it is NORMAL..
There are so many fat people and obese people nowadays that people have seem to lost a realistic view on what is normal

Healthy should NOT be size 10! What rubbish!

I'm 5'9 and when I was size 10, my periods stopped completely and I was so thin that my body fat was only 14%. If I jumped up and down while naked, the only bit of me that wobbled was a teeny tiny bit of flesh on the back of my thighs. I was basically flesh covered bone and everyone was worried about how thin I was.

LindsayStauffer · 22/08/2022 09:12

mellongoose · 22/08/2022 09:08

Perhaps it would be useful for us to regulate sizing in the U.K. For example a size 16 in all shops would have to be a certain measurement (or small range there of).

Then there would be no confusion.

I totally get the health argument here. According to the stats, I am an 'average' size 16. Actually, I know that I am at least 2 stone overweight and not as healthy as I could be.

I would welcome industry sizing regulation in this space, I think.

Shops vanity size because they know a significant percentage of customers would rather shop in the store that says they're a 14 than the store that says they're an 18. I think regulating sizing would be useful but impractical.

SupremeDreamz · 22/08/2022 09:12

@GlittercheeksOakleaf Sorry, I'm not saying I think that's greed. I'm saying that seems to be a perception that's quite common. I used food as a coping mechanism too. I hope you feel better now.

Hemelbelle · 22/08/2022 09:13

I'm 60 and when I was 20 I was a size 14 for jeans and skirts. I'm still around the same size or if anything slightly bigger waist, but in most brands for about 15 years I've been a size 10. So as others have pointed out there is a lot of vanity sizing now although not sure why larger sizes need to be described as 'plus'.

dribblewibble · 22/08/2022 09:14

Fwiw I hate eating. I'm not greedy. I take 2 or 3 bites and feel sick. I have to MAKE myself eat. I can easily go all day and only drink coffee until 5 or 6 pm.

I don't know why this idea that fat people are greedy persists.

LindsayStauffer · 22/08/2022 09:14

HundredMilesAnHour · 22/08/2022 09:11

Healthy should NOT be size 10! What rubbish!

I'm 5'9 and when I was size 10, my periods stopped completely and I was so thin that my body fat was only 14%. If I jumped up and down while naked, the only bit of me that wobbled was a teeny tiny bit of flesh on the back of my thighs. I was basically flesh covered bone and everyone was worried about how thin I was.

This feels a bit like copypasta lol. If it isn't then I'm sorry you were so poorly but you absolutely must have had some other serious health issues going on, or be shopping in a store that was oversizing its clothing a lot.

FWIW I don't think there needs to be a specific 'size' that is 'healthy' because as has been covered, every clothing manufacturer sizes things differently. That's why BMI is such a useful tool, it's a concrete objective measure. It's not perfect but unless you're spending two hours per day lifting weights or competing in athletics then it's a good gauge of whether you're carrying too much or too little weight on your body.

Unscented · 22/08/2022 09:16

HundredMilesAnHour · 22/08/2022 09:11

Healthy should NOT be size 10! What rubbish!

I'm 5'9 and when I was size 10, my periods stopped completely and I was so thin that my body fat was only 14%. If I jumped up and down while naked, the only bit of me that wobbled was a teeny tiny bit of flesh on the back of my thighs. I was basically flesh covered bone and everyone was worried about how thin I was.

Was that a long time ago? I'm 5'7" with a BMI of 22 and wear mostly an 8 these days, although in my teens and 20s, at the same weight I wore a 14. I don't think anyone wearing size 10 today would be as underweight as in your experience.

Rosehugger · 22/08/2022 09:17

In 2019 the average BMI for women AND men in the UK was 27.6! Honestly crazy

That's my BMI, but the average is higher for women in my age group. I still think it's pretty good that at 46 overall I haven't actually gained weight since my 30s though. I've struggled with my weight since I had DD2 but actually I'm slightly lighter than when I was 35 and most women gain 5kg to 10kg in that time.
I'd like to lose weight as BMI is about the only thing giving me a slight health risk of anything (cholesterol, blood sugar, BP, height to waist measurement ratio, resting HR all good) but otherwise I'm fit and healthy and I like my body as it is.

gogohmm · 22/08/2022 09:19

@HundredMilesAnHour

One of my DD's is size 10, one is size 8 they are both very healthy. The size 10 dd runs half marathons and plays semi professional sport. Size 10 is a very healthy size for an average height woman

Prettypussy · 22/08/2022 09:19

Size 16 might be the average size of women in the uk, but that doesn't mean it isn't still a 'plus size'.

I always though Plus Size referred to anyone who was out of the range of a healthy and desirable size. So size 14 would be the smallest you could be without being a plus size really (depending on your height of course).

I think if you are size 14/16 then you are probably overweight.

LindsayStauffer · 22/08/2022 09:19

dribblewibble · 22/08/2022 09:14

Fwiw I hate eating. I'm not greedy. I take 2 or 3 bites and feel sick. I have to MAKE myself eat. I can easily go all day and only drink coffee until 5 or 6 pm.

I don't know why this idea that fat people are greedy persists.

I don't think fat people are greedy. It's VERY easy to overeat, especially if you really enjoy food and spend a lot of time thinking about it! You only need to eat a couple hundred calories over your maintenance calories each day to gain weight. That's three bourbon biscuits. Not a lot!

But I think the perception comes from the fact that in order to gain weight you have to eat more food than your body needs, it doesn't grow on your body from nowhere. Bodies can't magic it up out of thin air. You need to be taking in excess energy for your body to store as fat. So people see fat people as greedy because they have literally overeaten to get to that stage with their body. Nevermind that it could have been a very slow process over months or years, creeping on.

It doesn't matter whether you go all day before eating or eat throughout the day if you're ultimately eating above maintenance. Plenty of people who do one meal a day are surprised to find they're not losing weight because if that one meal is 2000 calories and their maintenance is 1800 then they're overeating, just in a small window of time.

CookPassBabtridge · 22/08/2022 09:20

@HundredMilesAnHour Same.. I can't be lower than a 12. I'm 5ft 7 with a wide skeleton, when I got myself to a size 10 my periods stopped, my bones jutted out so much that I couldn't sit down long or lie in certain positions and I was eternally cold. My face looked like a skull.
We are all different shapes.

RedToothBrush · 22/08/2022 09:20

JulesCobb · 22/08/2022 08:36

words hurt and sink in and affect us later when we're deciding if we deserve lunch or not.
food is not a reward. It isn't ever something we deserve or not. That’s a terrible mindset to have. Food is just food. Not a reward or a punishment. Until you've addressed that, you will struggle to avoid disordered eating habits.

completely agree with pp who said it should be measures like mens. My mum is recently disabled and I have taken to measuring her waist and then taking the tape measure into the shops and measuring the clothes. She was shocked when the trousers I bought were ‘the wrong size’ but fit perfectly.

Re 'deserving' lunch.

I think there's a few things to unpack there.

I think we tend to eat today through habit more than anything because of an abundance and easy access to food.

There is a shop on every corner selling it and we can store it more easily. It also has long shelf lives. In the past, you couldn't just help yourself to food on every single hunger pang. Because you didn't have any (your cupboards were bare for whatever reason) and it wasn't easy to just get more immediately. You had to wait.

This means the ideas of self control and advertising are very much linked.

This ties in with the social convention of having 3 meals a day which is very modern. No we do not NEED to have lunch. We want lunch. We don't ever deserve lunch. Lunch is a desire in our modern world. We only need food if we are hungry. We have forgotten this. Instead we timetable food rather than deciding whether we need it.

This ties in with the concept of portion size too. It's fascinating how attitudes to clearing the plate are cultural and change around the world. The British attitude is we much always clear out plate - so this comes ahead of whether we are hungry or not. This is a hang over from food shortages in the past. If you go to the US, leaving food on the plate is much more accepted and normalised. Then we have how plate sizes have changed. It never fails to amaze me when I visit friends how attitudes to food are so often linked to the size of plate people have. This is where psychology comes in. People eat with their eyes and their cultural attitudes. So people fill a larger plate more because 'it looks right' and then clear the plate. Simply switching your plate size down can reduce your calorie intake and is a 'diet' plan which is one of the most successful and sustainable. Simply because you don't have to change what you eat.

This also brings me to quantity of food. People vastly over estimate how much they should be eating. When you look at how much was recommended daily in terms of the size of the amount of meat / cheese etc in the 40s, 50s, 60s its vastly different to what it was. People have no idea. Then you have things like ready meals which are based on an average 2000 calories for women. Well that's fine except half of women are below average by definition. They shouldn't be clearing their plates! Also see restaurants and customer expectations of portion size. (Ironically the posher you go, the smaller the portion on your plate). Add to that how ready meals are actively designed to be moreish to encourage more purchases. If you have a homemade meal of the same size compared to a ready meal of the same thing, one will leave you feeling like you one more because of food technology. Also see serving suggestions. They don't match what you'd consider normal consumption. Even recipes 'go large'.

Then there's the invention of the car. Parents don't walk their kids to school anymore. I get 5000 steps a day from popping my son to school. The woman two doors down puts her kids in the car and drives. I arrive before her. She has weight and health issues - but this is definitely partly a product of her reliance on the car and the need to park as close to the door as possible. You can see it in the supermarket car park. Those people who drive around to get the spot closest to the door and usually not stick thin. It's an attitude. Could I walk to the shops 10 mins away or is it easier to jump in the car? Repeat a 100 times. Or how easy is it to get a packet of crisps? Put the Crisps upstairs and see if that changes how often you can be bothered to get them.

Which brings me to having snacks in the house full stop. Eating between meals is a new concept. It's a marketing invention. We don't need food as a reward.

Then compare all of thisbhow historically we laboured in the fields and that would burn thousands of calories more than we do now. And we had periods of lack of food where you would go hungry and your body was designed to compensate this over the course of a year with how it stored calories. Genetically that hasn't changed but culturally we have. We need to be conscious of it.

I think one of the biggest things here is the process of thinking about how we eat, not just putting what we are given in our mouths at a set time, which is what so many people do without a second thought because its easy.

The reality is that people who do not put on weight, don't necessarily work at keeping the weight off, they merely think better about how they don't put it on in the first place.

In terms of strategising for that you have to set people up for life from childhood. What is normalised at home really does make a difference here too because you have an inter generational problem now set in. And this makes it much more difficult to resolve. Often this is closely tied to cultural attitudes to food and celebration.

Its always interesting to reflect on how much people eat at Christmas in this context. The average person has 10000 calories on Christmas day. Then wonders why they've put on weight over Christmas. It's perfectly possible to have a good Christmas with all the food you like without going that far over board.

You just have to think about it and break the habits of convenience and automatic eating merely because you can. All these little things add up. Even tackling one can make a difference without 'going on a diet'. I think I'd like to see a TV show doing something on this better.

Rosehugger · 22/08/2022 09:21

The average person has 10000 calories on Christmas day

I thought it was 3000?

LastWordsOfALiar · 22/08/2022 09:21

Strangeways19 · 22/08/2022 08:07

You define don't want to promote underweight either. Surely it's about accepting body sizes are different? And health within this is nothing to do with body shape or natural size. We shouldn't be pushing children to be skinny

I would never push skinny for an adult.

I also wouldn't want my kids to problem drink alcohol (ideally no alcohol at all tbh) to smoke, to take drugs, to fad diet, to bodybuild...the list goes on.

But this isn't about that. I feel that's deflecting.

And size 8-12/14, depending on height and frame isnt skinny or fat. People who are these sizes are statistically less likely to need health interventions as a direct result of their weight. They are unlikely to have joint problems, breathing problems, heart problems. Who wouldn't want that for their children?

I would never shame someone who is overweight. As I said previously, I've lived with someone who was heavily overweight and I realise the full impact it has on them and people around them. I would never even mention it to them unless they wanted to talk about it.

BUT as a society, something is very wrong that we are getting so much fatter. I too have gained a dress size since children and I'm not happy about it. I've slipped into poor eating and don't do enough meaningful exercise. I'm still a healthy BMI but I feel uncomfortable and know I could be healthier.

I don't think increasing dress sizes and what's considered a "normal" size is helpful. It's not to do with shaming, it's to do with facts.

shreddednips · 22/08/2022 09:21

SeussABC · 22/08/2022 08:48

@Deliaskis - Are you the same poster who said you were underweight at size 14 and that you need at least size 14 because of the size of your bones? Are you really tall?

I am finding this hard to picture in terms of bone size,

Some people do have large bones, for want of a better way of saying it. I'm plump now, but was very skinny when I was younger. Was a size 8 on the bottom but would need at least a 14 on top because I have an enormous ribcage. I'm short, and it was completely out of proportion with the rest of my body- very noticeable if I was wearing something tight or swimwear. Less so now the rest of my body is well-padded.

Chouetted · 22/08/2022 09:23

Prettypussy · 22/08/2022 09:19

Size 16 might be the average size of women in the uk, but that doesn't mean it isn't still a 'plus size'.

I always though Plus Size referred to anyone who was out of the range of a healthy and desirable size. So size 14 would be the smallest you could be without being a plus size really (depending on your height of course).

I think if you are size 14/16 then you are probably overweight.

So where does that leave people who are healthy at an "undesirable size"?

LindsayStauffer · 22/08/2022 09:23

dribblewibble · 22/08/2022 09:14

Fwiw I hate eating. I'm not greedy. I take 2 or 3 bites and feel sick. I have to MAKE myself eat. I can easily go all day and only drink coffee until 5 or 6 pm.

I don't know why this idea that fat people are greedy persists.

It's also propagated by these TV shows where they follow someone obese who claims they barely eat yet are somehow magically very overweight, film them 24/7 and 100% of the time discover that the person is either in denial about what they're eating, eats without thinking, or doesn't actually see what they're doing as 'eating' lol. Like they might say oh I don't eat all day because they don't sit down and have a meal, but they've had three massive lattes, five biscuits at work, a bag of crisps on the bus home and a few chocolate bars on the walk back from the bus stop. So they genuinely feel they don't eat, but they absolutely do. It's like those ridiculous posts you see on Reddit from people claiming they eat 800 calories per day for months and haven't lost a pound. No, your body cannot break the laws of thermodynamics. You don't see people in a famine or in a concentration camp who somehow remain fat.

Prettypussy · 22/08/2022 09:24

HundredMilesAnHour · 22/08/2022 09:11

Healthy should NOT be size 10! What rubbish!

I'm 5'9 and when I was size 10, my periods stopped completely and I was so thin that my body fat was only 14%. If I jumped up and down while naked, the only bit of me that wobbled was a teeny tiny bit of flesh on the back of my thighs. I was basically flesh covered bone and everyone was worried about how thin I was.

Maybe not for you (large skeleton maybe?) but for most women a size 10 is healthy.

Snog · 22/08/2022 09:25

The thing is that it IS NORMAL in the UK to be overweight or obese. 64% of us are in this category.
So what's NOT NORMAL is to have a "healthy BMI".

Shaming women in clothes shops and making it difficult for us to find clothes that we like that fit us properly is not going to help the obesity crisis one jot.

Everyone who is overweight is fully aware already of this I can assure you and does not need to be told or reminded of this let alone shamed for it.

Nobody is choosing to be overweight. And if it was easy to be slim we all would be.

We don't need to shame people for their body size. We need decent research on obesity, a good scientific understanding (which right now we really do not have) and structural changes in our society.

In the meantime, let's be done with superiority and body shaming and let's promote allowing all women to be able to enjoy the experience of buying clothing they want to buy without being "othered" by society if they are not size 8-14.

I personally know the lead obesity researchers at my local hospital. They are both world class in the field obesity research. Both are obese themselves. Go figure.

LilliaJones · 22/08/2022 09:25

mamabear715 · 22/08/2022 01:23

Yep, I feel quite offended, being a HUGE size 18.
Didn't realise I was quite so ugly & offensive..

Who said you're ugly and offensive?

You're projecting a bit there.

LindsayStauffer · 22/08/2022 09:26

@RedToothBrush the 'clear your plate' school of thinking is so deeply problematic yet people pass it down onto their kids without even thinking. You should listen to your body! There is no benefit to taking in excess calories you don't need when your body is telling you you're full. I used to see my neighbours do that with their kids, they'd keep them at the table for an hour until they'd finished every last bite. Surprise surprise, guess which kids grew up into obese adults?

boobot1 · 22/08/2022 09:26

Tabbouleh · 22/08/2022 08:46

The average height for a British woman is 5"5. The average British woman is not
on medications
autistic
disabled
anorexic

At that height, a size 16 is overweight by any global measure. Why are we refusing to name this public health problem?

Speaking as a size 16, I couldn't agree more.

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