To want to take son to A&E because I literally can’t get any help from anywhere?!

[Mamatoautisticson]

The title may seem drastic but I am literally at my wits end!

I have an 8 year old autistic child with ADHD who is aggressive and self-harms (head banging, hitting etc).

I have tried everywhere to get help - GP who referred to paediatrician, paediatrician who have got a huge backlog and even with an urgent referral you still have to wait months and months, CAMHS who can’t see him for a matter of weeks either.

He is literally getting worse to the point where every single day it’s a constant thing - hitting themselves, throwing themselves on the floor, throwing things at other people to injure them, aggressive and destructive all day long!

We live near a paediatric A&E who have a specialist unit 24/7 assessment type thing and I’m wondering whether this will help us get any help sooner?!

I literally feel like packing up his bag and sitting down there until someone either medicates him so I can cope with him until other interventions can be put in place or this can help him be seen sooner by other agencies?!

You could try it.
I used to work on a short stay children's ward and we had a 6 year old with severe autism who used to come in every couple of weeks because his parents couldn't cope. They had no support at all. They used to stay with him but it helped them just having staff around. After a few months social care finally put a package in place.
He wasn't in for medical reasons, he was a 'place of safety' patient. This was during covid so quite recent.

OP, I work with children and young people with SEN in a safeguarding role and was an HCP in a former life. There's a lot of conflicting information and advice on this thread and services available do depend on where you are to an extent.

I think you need to be clear in your mind about what kind of "help" you want. The reality is that any intervention (therapy, meds, social care support) is going to take time to have an impact.

If you want your DS to be assessed by CAMHS then taking him to A&E may result in an assessment, but kids I work with often wait on the paediatric ward for days before this happens and it's really not an ASD friendly environment. If your son is already diagnosed with ASD and ADHD then the camhs assessment will not necessarily tell you anything you don't already know. You can request they put you on the waiting list to see a Psychiatrist to discuss medication for ADHD, but this is unlikely to be quick, and I would expect them to be somewhat cautious about prescribing anything due to his age. In short, I would not expect any immediate intervention from CAMHS unless your sons self-harm is serious enough that he risks doing himself significant injury or worse (deep cuts requiring suturing, tying ligatures, overdosing etc). Even if there was immediate intervention from CAMHS (some areas have a crisis team, some don't) you would still have to manage him at home, medication or therapy takes time and does not necessarily stop a child from self-harming or lashing out even once it's established.

PP have suggested you call CS and tell them to "come and get" your DS. I have worked with many, many parents who have done this in moments of desperation over the years. CS are very used to hearing it and IME it doesn't have the impact some parents seem to think it will. I have also worked with a Mum who refused to take her DD home from A&E insisting she be admitted as she couldn't cope with her. She was told in no uncertain terms to take her DD home and take responsibility for her. They also reminded her that abandoning your child in hospital is a criminal offence. She walked out anyway, thinking her DD would he placed in temporary Foster care to give her some respite. Her DD was dropped home by a duty social worker. I understand why she did it, but it achieved nothing other than causing the child further distress unfortunately.

If you are wanting respite, support within the home such as a Family Support Worker, support around behaviour management or specific help around parenting a child with SEN then this is not something A&E can put into place, this would be the remit of Children's Services (social services). Is your DS already open to them? If not A&E could make a referral to them, but so could your GP, your DS's school (a DSL will be contactable in the holidays) or you could call them yourself. Google your local MASH- Multi Agency Safeguarding Team. Going to A&E won't necessarily speed anything up in this regard but if you genuinely believe your DS is at immediate risk of significant harm and you cannot keep him safe you would be reasonable to take him. I agree with a PP who said this does not sound like a mental health issue but a need for support from the children's services disability team.

Good luck, OP 💐

A&E are swamped with actual emergencies. This is not one of them and not sure what you are expecting them to do.

Yes, you have to wait. Like the rest of us. Sorry.

What a fucking awful thing to say.

I disagree, of course its an emergency.
It is complete and utter carer breakdown.
A family I worked with were in a similar situation, begged for help for months as their DS was a big non verbal lad, who was violent to the whole family. One day the DS escaped from the house whilst his Mum was asleep (after being up all night) and was found in a town miles away.
The Police really had a go at her, reported her for neglect and she had to suffer the indignity of social services (who she had begged for help) assessing her parenting ability.
Utterly appalling, the way some families are expected to just cope.
I hope you get your help OP.

There a number of things A&E might consider to possibly help:
-Immediate medication to sedate if a danger to himself (would have to be an emergency)
-Refer to social services for extra support
-Admit to CAHMS unit- bed very rarely available and again you really would only want to consider if you can't keep him safe

I'm really sorry you're in this situation. It's terrible it's come to this bit would you be able to go private to expedite an assessment?

Why do my heckles always rise when I read this expression on Mumsnet? 😃

Absolutely LOUSY thing to say.

My friend did exactly that with her autistic son.

It took intervention from her MP before the council agreed to it though. And the MP at the time was exceptionally good, and also had personal experience of the issues involved.

None of which outs OP and child in any worse position

Hi op I've done just this. Took my dd to A&E. she's ASD. I'd been waiting months for camhs at that point and I was literally on 24/7 watch as she was just totally out of control and hurting herself. It was after a desperate call to camhs where they advised me to go to the hospital and that would get the crisis team to come and assess.

She was kept in overnight till the crisis team could see her. She was medicated to get her calmer and then we went home. They then visited a few times a week and we got seen in camhs quicker as a result.

Best of luck I hope things go ok

I'm a CWD social worker. You can self refer in, ring the duty number for your locality lots of our families self refer so you don't need to ask paeds or school to do ir. Where I work all our assessments and visits need to have started within 5 days of initial contact and are often quicker so there shouldn't be a huge wait. There is also always someone on duty if there us a crisis although out off hours it might not be a Disabilities specialist. All social workers have a safeguarding responsibility but on a CWD team the emphasis is on supporting you to look after dcc rather that working about other things that might be the case on a cp team so although I know people worry about ss involvement it is different. I can't speak for all la's but we have a short stay respite home its emergency beds. It's hugely over subscribed for regular respite but has space for emergencies. I'm also a parent to a dc with asd so see both sides.

They’re definitely there for adults with mental health struggles so I can’t see why a child would be any different. I’d take my child if it was the only option left and it sounds like it is for you.

That’s beyond crap

it’s categorised as a mental disorder / illness in tbe US in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders

What kind of school does he go to?
When he us back
I
They czn may e supportcwith hime behaviour advice
And to look at resudential achool placement out if county if needed
does structured environment help?
And ss children wuth disabilitieses for respite
His behaviours may not be mental health crisis but part of his diagnosis sensory etc
Look at NAS and or ABA schools?

Meanwhile make sure not constipated or ear infection etc?

I don’t normally ever suggest going to A&E for anything other than accidents or emergencies but in case this I feel there’s not much else you can do if he’s starting to self harm. Even if they do nothing at least you have tried?

Sorry for the late reply and thank you for all of the advice! So I ended up ringing the GP who was going to get advice from son’s previous paediatric for dosing and then find a way of prescribing Risperidone before the weekend because she feels it’s necessary and it isn’t fair to make son suffer like this. Has anyone got any experience with this medication please?

🤗 keep venting here if you need to OP

May you never go through what OP and her child are going through. ‘By parents for parents’? - like fuck

Relieved to read your update

PLEASE read this ;

www.england.nhs.uk/learning-disabilities/care/children-young-people/keyworkers/

and visit “parental minds” website

The advice from Neverbeenskiing is excellent. If you are clear about what support you need and are entitled to, you might need to have a loud voice in order to get it, but the way to do that is via councillors, complaints service, MPs, legal advice rather than threats of abandonment.

In response to your last post, haven't heard of a child this age on risperidone but certainly seen it help some teens, others just didn't get on with it.

Risperidone is an anti-psychotic medication, sometimes used to bring down the level of agitation in a child with ASD but GP's are not normally willing to prescribe it, IME they usually insist this needs to be done by a CAMHS psychiatrist.

@Mamatoautisticson and what is the GP doing for you in this?
You need to put you first, or you'll burn-out and then he'll have no mum to look out for him. 💐